sqwash

So suddenly a group of separate individuals begin experiencing an issue which is entirely identical to mine and others currently, which is then confirmed by devs and most importantly, fixed. And your conclusion is they all don’t know how mice work? multiple merged GitHub reports describing not a similar issue to mine, but an identical one as seen; https://github.com/symless/synergy-core/issues/5291 https://github.com/symless/synergy-core/issues/5648 https://github.com/symless/synergy-core/issues/5607 im sorry, I don’t doubt your experience, but given the facts that prognosis is extremely far fetched and dismissive. how things currently work and how things SHOULD and USED TO work are 2 entirely different things I’m afraid, and given the evidence and repeated testimonies from multiple individuals, clearly show that something isn’t working as it used to or should. regardless I will continue searching for the solution to this glaring bug, thanks for your opinions.

Ok, pardon the poor wording on my part. my point being, all those people noticed a change from the norm, which was acknowledged and addressed.

Hi again, it’s been a while but I just wanted to follow up with an obvious question I didn’t ask regarding the GitHub post from putz and the mouse behaviour. if this behaviour is actually working as intended, then why was that post firstly accepted as an issue, and secondly subsequently resolved? A fix shouldn’t have to be rolled out for something which isn’t broken, right? if that drift in motion was actually intended behaviour, surely all the people that confirmed that is was a new issue for them following an update would have been simply told that that is how mice actually function as opposed to being accepted as an issue? Doesnt that highlight the fact that it is indeed an issue and not working as intended by that threads progression alone? also happy holidays!

Yikes, seems like a pretty big oversight that should have been caught in the QA phase. Thanks for the info!

Understood. Just to clarify, you recommend using a mouse software’s surface tuning as opposed to the OOBE/ no configuration in general? nice one!

"If the cursor moves the same distance on the screen as it does on the pad day to day then the variable is you, not the mouse." How about if it doesn't, what would be the/some of the reasons as to why physical mouse distance isn't being mirrored on the display just out of curiosity? Has there been any well knows reasons or causal factors, or is this no-mans land?

That sens perception thing you said you get, 100% agree with and get that too. I got into the habit of forcing myself to not change sens after a nights sleep and a fresh days boot. There’s a “warm-up” period which even with highly developed.. ‘Voldemort’ feels unnatural. Also, friends never let friends drink and DPI. Never change sens after a laphroaig or 2, the next day is usually a “wtf was I doing” fest. Anywho with regard to the sens changing, the order I like to do it is by firstly finding what feels nice on the desktop as I believe there’s the whole bleed over thing with windows sens and scaling etc. but once locked in on the desktop with windows sens, dpi, polling etc. I then would head into a game and use its test area to get in game sens right. Which for me would be only a baseline setting, as aim in training grounds and an actual game tend to always differ. The comment you made with the off screen 180s, do you mean when on desktop screen or in-game? Because if in game, I used to be able to pull of those 180 snaps by feeling, but now it varies to such an incredible degree, it just isn’t consistent in the slightest. It’s feels like something is fighting against the movement. If I had to describe it better, it would be like the movement you would get on a mouse that was using an emulator for a console, like the xim. Not like “true” mouse response. Just like there’s some sort of acceleration/ negative acceleration, v-synchy drag. Or do you mean the physical mouse itself feeling consistent when you move your hand? in which case, yeah totally got you there! That sens scaling slider depending on day sounds interesting, will that be a direct modification on the windows end or a middle man type of deal which works in conjunction with windows sens, if I’m even understanding correctly. Regardless, will be keen to test that out if and when becomes available to do so! Also, I know we’re back to me using the feelings word again and I’m sorry, but this one is more of a sidebar. When scaling modes are changed within say, nvcp, between aspect, full and none, why do they feel so different from eachother, despite nothing visually changing on screen? Even when mouse was fine this would happen, I’m just curious as to why?

If I were to backshelf the drifting for now due to your advice, I’d still like to tackle why the mouse feels so different now than it did before. So another feeling I get when using the mouse, is that it isn’t as responsive as it way. Like it is ever so slightly de-synced. on most of the videos I’ve made for the (backshelved) drift, you can kind of see that the cursor and the mouse aren’t moving together, as in you can see the mouses position slightly ahead of the on-screen cursor, and that’s how it feels too. It used to feel more responsive and general and snappy. also with regard to the mouse tester app, what are its limitations if any? Because I feel a MAJOR difference between usb 2 and 3 ports, always have. But when measuring the plots of both ports they show equal path consistencies, despite feeling so drastically different. thanks again in advance mate.

Hey mate, thanks for explaining that to me. I’ve experienced the 8k polling woes first hand. When liasing with the input dude, was also informed that the undesired effect from 8k was due to a spam of raw input requests from certain processes/ apps? (Paraphrasing off the top of my head there) I observed that behaviour when certain apps were opened in conjunction with other certain apps. here’s an example of that with overwatch and discord. When discord opened, 8k became unusable.

I’ll also be creating another quick video, alternating between 250 and 1000 polling to show the clear visible difference between the two plots in mousetester. just wondering what the scientific explanation for that difference is?

Howdy, sorry went away to the coast for a couple of days to enjoy the last of the sun. Thank you once again for all that info. Could I ask, is it well documented that USB 3 is worse for mouse than USB 2? And is it possible in even the slightest, that using a 3.0 driver to handle 2.0 ports is causing some issues? Also, what is the reason for 1k polling being worse than 250?

So this could be interesting, from what I can tell when using the Mousetester app my feelings regarding 1000hz polling might be right? Remember I said that even when my mouse functioned correctly 1k polling didn't feel right (almost like there was added drag on the Y axis only) and that I always preferred high sens with 250/500 polling. Well, I swapped mice out recently from the 8k viper, for 2 reasons. 1, I keep hitting the ambidextrous thumb mouse buttons by accident and also because the polling range is limited from 125, 500 and 1k+ etc.. 500 felt the best, while (when it didn't cause camera panning stutters) 8k looked the best. In the regard that it translated well into my 240hz monitor and appeared to make panning and frames present like butter. Probably technically unsound terms for what I'm trying to convey, but I'll stand by my mess and own it, when 8k works it's looks visually amazing. Still doesn't feel as good as 250/500 to me though. Anyway, I swapped out the viper for a mouse with the option of 250hz poll, as that and 500 always felt better. worth nothing that 125 always felt bad, in the sense that panning and frames would seemingly stutter as they still do. The mouse is steel series prime, while I don't enjoy the way this mouse feels in my hand, I prefer the option of the 250 poll. Here's a video I made opening the app, testing it out quickly and then towards the end changing between 250hz and 1000hz polling to test. It looks like on 1k there are dots outside the range of the curve, whereas my 250 poll shows none. Don't put it past me that I've done everything right here, there may very well be user error as I'm not really familiar with the app not am that smart in general. If there are any other settings I need to apply, change or anything with the test itself I need to do different or have done wrong entirely please let me know so I can amend!

Noob. You’re the first person I’ve seen say that aside from me. Not because I know any better, because I certainly don't, but because I have felt better. I got a Reddit bullocking after saying that while mouse sensors are a factor, this shouldn’t be a consistent variable. while I don’t deny that mice sensors can attribute to drift (from the exact same video you shared and my own experience), I am now currently on my umpteenth mouse, every single one of which has the same “pattern” and direction of drift. from razer deathadder, naga, viper mini, viper 8k, zowie 4k, steelseries sensei ten, glorious model - o, and multiple more im forgetting I’m sure including just generic Ines, to eliminate the factor of the in-board memory causing a conflict or something.. idk might be dumb but made sense for me to test. also alongside multiple mousepads. From soft to hard, cloth to plastic and glass. All yielded the same results for me. Currently I’m on the sphex as that was the exact one I used before and I enjoy the glide on it as opposed to cloth which has substantially less glide feel and at times felt restrictive due to pressure applied down on the mouse. More pressure = more drag, obviously. i also member that I was able to use multiple mice and laptop touchpad as previously mentioned, one of the other mice I used was something that looked like a bot from robot wars. The mad katz c.a.t, when it first came out. Same deal, was able to take it out the box, plug and play with 0 issue and the immediate development of muscle memory. since then I’ve been trying to retrace my footsteps so to speak and attempting to remember/ implement things that may have been a factor. e.g. Recently I ordered a usb 2.0 header connection to see the effect that has. The reasons are because even when my mouse worked, all of the usb ports barring 2, the top ones (2.0) wouldn’t feel right. They would feel, kind of like how they do now. And I remember in the old rig, there was a usb 2.0 driver, whereas now it’s all handled by xhci 3.1 and root hub 3.0. also I wanted to see if a different part of the mobo handling usb would solve, which is why I also bought a pcie usb extension to no avail. Even though my board has 2.0 ports built in, they are not connected via pins like they were in my previous build. Which now they are due to the additional usb slots. While the mouse feels fine and crisp plugged into the new usb header, the issue persists. But then again, are still being handled by the 3.1 so didn’t manage to fully test what I wanted, but seems redundant at this point to continue down that avenue, due to some people having the issue and not. One of the people I’ve liaised with doesn’t have the drift, has correct RawMouseInputAccumulator tester readings but is also using the same driver set I.e. 3.0/3.1 to handle their usb devices, so seems unlikely that is a culprit. There could be other variables, like back in the day I remember lots of people had issues, myself included, with Realtek audio driver affecting mouse movement and response. That one took a while to diagnose, but once the driver was replaced fixed the issue completely.

Ah understood no problem at all, and I will hop on mouse tester and share the results. Cheers mate!

This is extremely interesting! Thank you for taking the time to look in to that. I would very much like to test to see how the function you wrote feels if that’s ok? How would I go about applying this, the realm of coding and scripts are very estranged to me, apologies.

One final thing while I've got you. That issue I shared previously with the github link that I referenced. Is there any way to tell what the fix was for their separate issue, I can see in the hidden items in the middle of the post, shows that putzworks suggested some sort of fix. I am just curious what it was exactly that they had to change in order to get the affect to cease. Thank you once again!

I wish that was an option, sincerely. Thank you for all your help

I just captured a new video highlighting the issue further.

Out of curiosity, how did your results look?

I suppose if it isn’t allowed it won’t be approved, if it is it will. here’s the link to myself performing the test as well as a download link which I personally converted to a mega link for sharing.

I’d gladly, as long as it’s not violating any community rules?

Hey mate thanks for the reply again, 100%, which sucks. Sometime I wish that Karl Pilkington's machine where you could feel other peoples feelings existed, would be amazing in times like these! To the decline with age, I don't disagree with you at all in that regard, but usually when it comes to age it would be a gradual decline, this was seemingly overnight, the problem is I've been trying to figure it out for 6 years now, so the age thing although applicable entirely to a degree, wasn't the reason this initially started. I've always read that, with regards to 6/11 being the most 1:1 etc. while any other value "back in the day" above 6/11 (e.g. 7/11, 9, 10, 11) would and does always feel unusable, it was only at 8/11 which was ok, it essentially felt like 6/11 and a half, so a whole number, wereas the others felt like 1.257 or 1.634, pulling those number out my ass to make a point obviously, but that was the feeling I got when trying to find my sens originally, if that makes any sense at all xD. But yeah my main setting was always at 3/11. It felt like 6/11 would be as far as the piece of string would be stretched, any over (aside from 8/11) felt like the string was stretched beyond it's capabilities, so had to have the gaps filled in or something. Any under 6/11 felt better than 6/11, almost like the string was being compressed and in turn more accurate. Which is why I was most comfortable on 3/11 1800dpi. I tried going lower to 2/11 and a higher dpi, but I remember that didn't feel right at all. But... all of the usable settings I tried, were consistent. Although I settled on the higher sens due to being a wrist aimer instead of an arm aimer, even those lower sens settings we're consistent. Nowadays, feels like a form of acceleration or Built-in mouse smoothing. And given that even after ALL THIS TIME they still insist on shipping windows with mouse acceleration enabled by default just goes to show how possible a settings that affects the consistency of the mouse existing is. I wonder.. with the images you included of the circles, would it be possible to apply my mentioned settings in a similar test to see how the jagged edges look. If they stay the same as 6/11 or if in fact my feelings re correct, and 3/11 with a high dpi like 1800 makes the jagged lines smoother. I would love to do it myself, but I am not the most technically advanced user. I'm just an aiming juggernaut/ meat-head. Anyway I went on a ramble there. My point was when mentioning the 8/11 speed, is that before I could set a dpi of about 800 and it would be controllable to a degree, speed-wise. Not accuracy-wise. Even before at 6/11, 400dpi would be controllable. Right now, none of the above is true. Including my original settings of 3/11 1800. Wildly faster than it used to be.. Scaling is something I've been thinking about too. I remember previously, I was also able to use all scaling %'s (100 being default), and changing those would always impact the mouse in-game as I just mentioned. When making the scaling % higher, I was waaay more accurate in general. I think I used to prefer 125%, but I can't remember. It was either 125 or 150 though. 100 didn't feel accurate enough for FPS to me. But now, 125% feels like it adds more acceleration/ inconsistency compared to 100 (which also feels this way, but 125 setting exaggerates it seemingly), which I believe is due to base scaling already feeling bad with regard to input accuracy. 150 also feels like this, but not as much as 125 for some reason. So I think this has always been the case, where changing scaling would affect mouse movement. But the problem now is the mouse doesn't feel good at it's base scaling, so when "stretched" for lack of a technical term, only serves to visually exacerbate the issue. I really do know how it must look from your perspective.. having to deal with thousands of people, a majority of which (myself included) that have little to no idea on a technical level. What i do, and always will know however, is my co-ordination is and always has been exceptional. From grade 8 piano, to bar flair, to tennis (when my body didn't used to hate me so much). All to a high level. I used to train the jr's at the all England lawn tennis club alongside Wardy and a mate of mine for a few years to give you an idea of my standard of co-ordination. And trust me when I say, when my mouse worked before, I could feel the shots, not see them. That's only due to repetition and the development of muscle memory. My K/D on ghosts was around the 4.5 mark. That, and titanfall were the last times I was able to feel my shots. Now it's all micro-corrections and whiffing. EDIT: Also I apologise for the text with the eyebelch background, for the life of my I can't see how to have it not do that.. Last edit, i swear..: Also i have the source code for the app I previously mentioned I had developed if you'd like it? I was given permission to share from the Microsoft engineer. Cheers oh and if I wanted to run that circle thing myself as you may not have time, could you eli5 how I can run that script. Sorry. Am doofus.

I forgot to mention that after corresponding with the input engineer that developed the raw mouse app for me, informed me that this behaviour can be resolved on a laptops trackpad. This happens due to built-in smoothing of precision touchpads, which, due to how pointless the need of it is, is enabled by default. Much like EPP. There was a reg tweak which resolved, but I forget as that was a few fresh installs ago. Something like “honormouseaccel” or something. anyway, back to the main point. what would be the reason for previously being able to use for e.g. 3/11 and 1800dpi 500polling comfortably, but nowadays am unable to use the same settings. in fact this may be of use.. I am also unable to use 6/11 400dpi. Having these settings applied results in the cursor being extremely fast and uncontrollable. when things worked correctly, I was also able to use 8/11 comfortably, now that is entirely out of the question. regards!

Hi mate, thanks for replying. I’m aware that this isn’t due to windows version now, due to the creation of the app. Which measures the raw reports of the mouse before any tinkering of the OS whatsoever. It was noteworthy though that drivers may still have an impact. When I didn’t have this issue (or at least not as prevalent) was when I was playing CoD ghosts. I started fps on that game and quickly was able to develop muscle memory. I then had to take a few years break for health and other various reasons. That was back on a 660 and the mouse being used was the same brand, being razer, only now it’s the viper 8k instead of the deathadder. You mentioned aiming style, which may play an important factor as you mentioned, as I have always been a high sens player. I am unable to run my previous settings due to this issue, but regardless am able to recall my settings exactly, having done this for several years for hours upon hours on end due to the aforementioned health issues and free time. I’ve always been a wrist aimer, windows speed was 3/11, polling was always 250/500 (1000 even back then wasn’t right) dpi was 1850. The thing I don’t understand is how I was able to develop muscle memory initially within a matter of weeks to an extremely high degree of accuracy, whereas now it has been years. And it has to be due to the inconsistency in The mouse movement. my aim style hasn’t changed, nor has my Co-ordination diminished. another short anecdote, I also used to play DCUO which is an mmo, to quite a high standard. And it got to the point where, as you do, run out of stuff to do until future content release. so I developed a tick essentially, of doing lap after lap around the watchtower. all that repeated motion with a super speedster and not once did I feel anything comparable to the way mouse feels now. I also used to play dcuo with a laptop trackpads for a while, in the early days of my pc gaming journey. Same thing there too, was able to develop muscle memory using a trackpad. Obviously after applying all the basic changes like max power plan, selective suspend, EPP disable etc. But now, this drifting issue is ALSO happening on laptop trackpad - Something is not as it was, and the problem is it’s only based on past feeling. So nothing I can quantitatively document. I can however say that it didn’t feel like this in the 98, xp, me and 7 that I can personally attest to. I skipped 8 and arrived back on 10. The previous post I linked had the user Putzworks (shown in the hidden section in the middle) show what was causing this issue, and although this specific example is mac and server based, I believe is the issue. He goes on to talk about integer rounding etc. the only reason that post is something I reference, is due to the exact nature of my issue and the fact that it was fully resolved. regards, and thanks again for taking the time to help me. It is taking years off my life, honestly. No worse feeling that being a runner who suddenly has one leg shorter than the other with no explanation for it, just a different gait.

Hi there, thanks for the input. Yes this has been tested on Linux with the same outcome. with regard to the test I recorded, this isn’t happening on everyone’s systems, I asked others to download the test and perform the same pattern of movement , some experienced drifting some not. I can see no common denominator. EDIT: The only other time i have seem my EXACT issue mentioned and addressed, is here. Mouse cursor movement drifts over time · Issue #5648 · symless/synergy-core · GitHub