CS:GO - m_rawinput vs rinput

[qsxcv]

hm... yea i just tried at fps_max 0 and it's not perfect... windows cursor leads by 2ms or so.

doesn't necessarily translate into in-game latency though.

[nicolovbg]

Hello,

 

I've recorded two videos with the following settings: m_rawinput 1, fps_max 0 and V-Sync 0. Just look how the mouse delay increased when full 3D scene has been rendered. And in this situation the game's cursor should represent the crosshair behavior, no? I write about this because I can definitely feel the difference between mouse responce in 1.6 and CS GO.

 

https://youtu.be/zEwDSlyD85Y

 

Edited October 13, 2015 by nicolovbg

[qsxcv]

kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

 

volz and i fixed the issues with m_rawinput 0 using a modified rinput

 

here's a dll

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_qzxdnJV0PNDZsejlsTGFQUmM/view?usp=sharing < this was a debug build which doesn't work unless you have msvcr debug libraries and stuff

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_qzxdnJV0PdVJjdDFEd3BYNUk/view?usp=sharing

 

source:

https://github.com/abort/Rinput-Library

or

https://github.com/VolsandJezuz/Rinput-Library

and replace rawinput.cpp with this:

http://pastebin.com/Kjb7vWhj

 

i guess volz will commit the changes to his fork when he sees this

Edited October 19, 2015 by qsxcv

[poppe]

kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

 

volz and i fixed the issues with m_rawinput 0 using a modified rinput

 

here's a dll

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_qzxdnJV0PNDZsejlsTGFQUmM/view?usp=sharing

 

source:

https://github.com/abort/Rinput-Library

or

https://github.com/VolsandJezuz/Rinput-Library

and replace rawinput.cpp with this:

http://pastebin.com/Kjb7vWhj

 

i guess volz will commit the changes to his fork when he sees this

Better uninstall sourceGL then and see if people get VAC banned before using it again?

[nicolovbg]

I replaced the Rinput.dll with yours, started CS GO, typed csgo.exe and got: failed to load Dymanic Link Library. Is everything alright with your file?

[qsxcv]

yea it's like that for everyone else. trying to figure out why...

[qsxcv]

try this

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_qzxdnJV0PdVJjdDFEd3BYNUk/view?usp=sharing

[Vols and Jezuz]

Teensy tests show the new RInput has <0.001% packet loss across all FPS.

 

sourceGL has been updated with the new RInput: http://sourcegl.sourceforge.net/

 

Here is the new RInput dll on github: https://github.com/VolsandJezuz/Rinput-Library/releases/tag/v1.35

 

Better uninstall sourceGL then and see if people get VAC banned before using it again?

 

This is unnecessary imo

[Xbye]

Teensy tests show the new RInput has <0.001% packet loss across all FPS.

 

sourceGL has been updated with the new RInput: http://sourcegl.sourceforge.net/

 

Here is the new RInput dll on github: https://github.com/VolsandJezuz/Rinput-Library/releases/tag/v1.35

 

 

This is unnecessary imo

I'm curious how SourceGL works/prioritizes itself when someone is video encoding (IE. livestreaming). Would it result in more packet loss (Also, <0.001% in a new update is great)? Would it be beneficial to have SourceGL run at Above Normal or High priority?

[Vols and Jezuz]

sourceGL is basically idling once a game is launched, so it's probably best to have it at Normal or Below Normal priority. Using sourceGL for RInput versus just using RInput.exe will have no difference in packet loss, sourceGL simply automates the process.

[Xbye]

sourceGL is basically idling once a game is launched, so it's probably best to have it at Normal or Below Normal priority. Using sourceGL for RInput versus just using RInput.exe will have no difference in packet loss, sourceGL simply automates the process.

I meant using SourceGL+RInput together while livestreaming. As livestreaming is a very intensive process and I'm unsure if the video encoder thread might take priority over SourceGL+RInput a few times and result in some packet loss.

[nicolovbg]

Everything workes fine. Guys, your work is invaluable. I can finally play with 99,99% of accuracy and no delay at all, I am so sensitive to those miliseconds. :/ Thank you a lot! (:

[DPI Wizard]

 

kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

 

volz and i fixed the issues with m_rawinput 0 using a modified rinput

 

here's a dll

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_qzxdnJV0PNDZsejlsTGFQUmM/view?usp=sharing < this was a debug build which doesn't work unless you have msvcr debug libraries and stuff

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_qzxdnJV0PdVJjdDFEd3BYNUk/view?usp=sharing

 

source:

https://github.com/abort/Rinput-Library

or

https://github.com/VolsandJezuz/Rinput-Library

and replace rawinput.cpp with this:

http://pastebin.com/Kjb7vWhj

 

i guess volz will commit the changes to his fork when he sees this

 

This is awesome! Will test it a bit later

[Vols and Jezuz]

I meant using SourceGL+RInput together while livestreaming. As livestreaming is a very intensive process and I'm unsure if the video encoder thread might take priority over SourceGL+RInput a few times and result in some packet loss.

 

sourceGL injects the RInput dll into the game exe just like RInput.exe. Therefore sourceGL having a higher priority can only hurt things, if it were to take CPU time away from the game, but this shouldn't really happen because like I said, sourceGL is basically not doing anything after game startup. And with the way m_rawinput 1 and RInput work, mouse packets shouldn't be lost if the video encoder is taking some CPU time away from the game. Instead, it would just cause fewer FPS, so the mouse packets could have slightly more input delay just from less FPS.

[Xbye]

sourceGL injects the RInput dll into the game exe just like RInput.exe. Therefore sourceGL having a higher priority can only hurt things, if it were to take CPU time away from the game, but this shouldn't really happen because like I said, sourceGL is basically not doing anything after game startup. And with the way m_rawinput 1 and RInput work, mouse packets shouldn't be lost if the video encoder is taking some CPU time away from the game. Instead, it would just cause fewer FPS, so the mouse packets could have slightly more input delay just from less FPS.

Alright, good to know. I'm just trying to figure out why using rInput from SourceGL in L4D2 makes it feel like the mouse is harder to control, as opposed to m_rawinput 1.

 

EDIT: Yeah, I can say without a doubt that rInput (using SourceGL) while livestreaming in L4D2 feels really hard to control. Without livestreaming I can control my mouse just fine using rInput, but while streaming it feels easier to use m_rawinput.

Edited October 20, 2015 by ball2hi

[Vols and Jezuz]

Alright, good to know. I'm just trying to figure out why using rInput from SourceGL in L4D2 makes it feel like the mouse is harder to control, as opposed to m_rawinput 1.

 

EDIT: Yeah, I can say without a doubt that rInput (using SourceGL) while livestreaming in L4D2 feels really hard to control. Without livestreaming I can control my mouse just fine using rInput, but while streaming it feels easier to use m_rawinput.

 

RInput involves extra calls to the Win32 API functions GetCursorPos and SetCursorPos to feed the game the raw input data that m_rawinput 1 does not. The 'old' v1.31 RInput suffered packet loss because it would call GetCursorPos and read the raw mouse data, but it would wait until SetCursorPos was called to reset the raw x and y accumulators. Meaning any raw data collected during polls in between these two calls was ignored. The way the Source engine is coded with m_rawinput 0 to translate cursor position changes to in-game aim, the two cursor function would ideally occur sequentially without interruption. The phenomenon of dropped mouse data packets was roughly proportional to fps_max, because the more frames that were rendered, the more work the CPU was having to do and thus the higher occurrence of something requiring CPU wall time in between Get/SetCursorPos.

 

The new RInput fixed the packet drops by instead resetting the raw x and y accumulators during the GetCursorPos call (along with another more subtle and difficult to explain change in how it accumulates the raw input data). Still, RInput requires the two extra Win32 API calls that are vulnerable to high CPU utilization and being delayed momentarily by higher-prioritized processes. Now I really am not knowledgeable enough about Windows API, Source engine frame rendering, how the streaming program(s) work, or CPU prioritization to know exactly could be going on if what you're saying is true, but I imagine it's one of these possibilities:

 

1) streaming is causing frequent ~100% utilization of the CPU core that is also handling Get/SetCursorPos, so those functions are subject to having to wait for CPU wall time, which could either delay the frame rendering they're being called for, or cause that cursor change to be delayed to the next frame (thus inducing 1 frame of input lag)

2) your streaming implementation isn't causing ~100% core utilization happens to be particularly taxing on the Windows API, causing some kind of collision with the Get/SetCursorPos timing

3) the streaming processes have higher priority than the game process, so calls such as Get/SetCursorPos are ceding time to the streaming processes during high CPU utilization (this possibility could be easily fixed by setting the streaming processes lower priority than the game with Prio)

 

Whatever the case, you could invest ~$20 in a Teensy and easily program it to perform exact patterns of mouse input to demonstrate with empirical evidence what you say you are experiencing.

[qsxcv]

actually even with m_rawinput 1,

setcursorpos is still being called (every frame i think)

you can see this if you have a second monitor open; you can see the cursor bouncing on the second screen when you swipe with a high dpi and fps_max 60

 

i think this is so that you don't click on the second window too easily. but why don't they just call clipcursor?

 

Alright, good to know. I'm just trying to figure out why using rInput from SourceGL in L4D2 makes it feel like the mouse is harder to control, as opposed to m_rawinput 1.

 

EDIT: Yeah, I can say without a doubt that rInput (using SourceGL) while livestreaming in L4D2 feels really hard to control. Without livestreaming I can control my mouse just fine using rInput, but while streaming it feels easier to use m_rawinput.

interesting; what are you using, obs?

 

this is something i should definitely try when i resume my input lag measurements

 

 

Hello,

I've recorded two videos with the following settings: m_rawinput 1, fps_max 0 and V-Sync 0. Just look how the mouse delay increased when full 3D scene has been rendered. And in this situation the game's cursor should represent the crosshair behavior, no? I write about this because I can definitely feel the difference between mouse responce in 1.6 and CS GO.

https://youtu.be/zEwDSlyD85Y

 

the csgo cursor gets the cursor position differently from the csgo screen movements though. for example if you use rinput, and set m_rawinput 1, in-game your crosshair is stuck and doesnt move, but the csgo cursor is still fine

Edited October 21, 2015 by qsxcv

[Xbye]

interesting; what are you using, obs?

 

this is something i should definitely try when i resume my input lag measurements

 

 

Yes, OBS. However, I'm using Open Broadcaster Software - Multiplatform (OBS-MP) and doing two encoders. One is my livestream, 648p@60fps, and HDD recording 720p@60fps.

 

I'm noticing in general it's hard to control SourceGL rInput even without streaming. I'm not sure if it's related to my computer or Left4Dead 2, but it's definitely noticeable. 

[Vols and Jezuz]

Yes, OBS. However, I'm using Open Broadcaster Software - Multiplatform (OBS-MP) and doing two encoders. One is my livestream, 648p@60fps, and HDD recording 720p@60fps.

 

I'm noticing in general it's hard to control SourceGL rInput even without streaming. I'm not sure if it's related to my computer or Left4Dead 2, but it's definitely noticeable. 

 

I'm assuming this is with the newly released RInput v1.35/sourceGL v2.06? Like I said, using RInput with or without sourceGL would be the exact same in-game, so if there is some problem in L4D2, it's related to RInput and not sourceGL per se.

 

Have you used RInput with CS:GO or any other game? If so, is it just L4D2 that doesn't feel right with it?

Edited October 21, 2015 by Vols and Jezuz

[Vols and Jezuz]

actually even with m_rawinput 1,

setcursorpos is still being called (every frame i think)

you can see this if you have a second monitor open; you can see the cursor bouncing on the second screen when you swipe with a high dpi and fps_max 60

 

i think this is so that you don't click on the second window too easily. but why don't they just call clipcursor?

 

I've had the exact same thought before. Calling SetCursorPos with raw input seems like such a bizarre work-around as opposed to simply calling ClipCursor. Maybe ClipCursor has higher overhead or some other strange side effect...?

 

Random thought, but we could make an injectable DLL that peeks and discards SetCursorPos calls by the game and triggers ClipCursor being called for m_rawinput 1. Or even more complicated, we could make RInput detect the m_rawinput setting and work normally if it's 0, and not register itself for raw input or detour/trampoline Get/SetCursorPos and instead use the ClipCursor change I just mentioned if it's 1. Not sure if either of these ideas are entirely possible or worth pursuing though.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Vols and Jezuz

[Xbye]

I'm assuming this is with the newly released RInput v1.35/sourceGL v2.06? Like I said, using RInput with or without sourceGL would be the exact same in-game, so if there is some problem in L4D2, it's related to RInput and not sourceGL per se.

 

Have you used RInput with CS:GO or any other game? If so, is it just L4D2 that doesn't feel right with it?

It was also with the older SourceGL which is why I stopped using it until this new update, which I'm not using it again now haha. It just feels very jittery, and almost like I'm playing with 1000hz polling rate (IE. it's reading every motion so the slightest sneeze can move me off target). It does it's job of less input-lag (noticeable) but for precision/control it just doesn't feel there.

 

I'm wondering if it might be because of my Logitech Gaming Software installed. LGS has been the center of a lot of problems, I just wish I could have it not detect my G502 and just detect my keyboard so it doesn't do any kind of interfering with my mouse. Going to test and see if this solves the problem (uninstalling LGS).

 

EDIT: Uninstalling LGS (and restarting) seems to have helped a bit with the jitter but it still feels harder to control. Specifically when I'm moving the mouse diagonally (IE. up left, down right) and while moving. Horizontally, it feels fine. I'll do more testing with this but maybe it's just because I'm not used to the more responsive feel perhaps?

Edited October 21, 2015 by ball2hi

[Vols and Jezuz]

No offense but your experience with the old Rinput/sourceGL isn't really relevant anymore because the new ones are considerably better in terms of accurately handling raw mouse data with ~0 packet loss.

 

Now if the new RInput/sourceGL controlled noticeably worse than m_rawinput 1 in L4D2, then that would be something that might concern me more.

[Xbye]

No offense but your experience with the old Rinput/sourceGL isn't really relevant anymore because the new ones are considerably better in terms of accurately handling raw mouse data with ~0 packet loss.

 

Now if the new RInput/sourceGL controlled noticeably worse than m_rawinput 1 in L4D2, then that would be something that might concern me more.

I said also. I tested both. Both were hard to control compared to m_rawinput 1 in L4D2. I'm going to ask someone else who plays L4D2 to test it out and give me their opinion later, using the new sourceGL.

[Xbye]

Sorry for the double-post but figured I'd update what I've been testing.

 

So, for the longest time I've been using 400dpi / 5 sens. I think the multiplier of 5 sensitivity is what's causing the issues as when I tried 3600dpi and 0.3 sens, whatever problems I was getting from SourceGL were gone in Left4Dead 2. I think the proper term to use is jitter, as my friend who tried out SourceGL said he felt it at the beginning.

[Rud]

Hi ! I play csgo with the rawinput 0 and I feel the delay after CSS. Can you do choose between Accel OS OF or ON in Rinput ? 

At the moment players who play with the acceleration OS do not have programs that reduce the delay in CSGO and use acceleration OS.