Optimal Sensitivity and Mouse-sensitivity users

[Niki9984]

20 minutes ago, MuntyYy said:

That's not entirely true.You can perform at your best with any sensitivity, given the time and dedication. Don't worry about this, worry instead about the conversion method. Use 00% and you will improve faster and be consistent in the long run, as opposed to ANY other conversion method.

Don't think he was talking about the conversion.. The conversion is only necessary once you've found your BASE sensitivity.

[MuntyYy]

Your base sensitivity can be anything between 7 cm up to 120 conversion is necessary unless you play cs go without adsing

[Niki9984]

3 minutes ago, MuntyYy said:

Your base sensitivity can be anything between 7 cm up to 120 conversion is necessary unless you play cs go without adsing

The point i'm trying to make and what previous comment was talking about is that if you dont have a SET sensitivity in ANY game , but just keep changing sensitivity every other day, the conversion won't help you ? We were talking about picking one sensitivity (that feels GOOD for you) and STICK to it xD

[MuntyYy]

I understood what you guys want. I just stated this - Theres no such thing as choosing the right "sensitivity" nothing will feel right if you keep changing it. So instead, keep your current one and improve at it, waste no more time in finding unicorns. 

[MuntyYy]

Games will eventually force you to learn "new sensitivities" take for example the AUG in CS:GO. If you play with it often, depending of the conversion method chosen you will either learn and improve consistently or just be fooled that you do better with x% monitor match/ viewspeed.

[Niki9984]

4 minutes ago, MuntyYy said:

I understood what you guys want. I just stated this - Theres no such thing as choosing the right "sensitivity" nothing will feel right if you keep changing it. So instead, keep your current one and improve at it, waste no more time in finding unicorns. 

That's true... but you cant say that there's no right sensitivity otherwise we all could be neurosurgeons with super dexterity  

And of course the conversion is great, otherwise, why would I be here from first place? I use it for every new game even tho I change sens on my base game all the time (Cs:go)

Edited September 21, 2018 by Niki9984

[MuntyYy]

The sweetspot of tracking vs flicking lies somewhere between 25 - 40 cm. Anything lower than that will make you wish to be more accurate, or higher than 40 will do the opposite therefore you will keep changing it thinking there must be something "wrong". But each and everyone of us, have their own preferences and can improve ( give the right conversion method ) with any sensitivity. 

[Niki9984]

Just now, MuntyYy said:

The sweetspot of tracking vs flicking lies somewhere between 25 - 40 cm. Anything lower than that will make you wish to be more accurate, or higher than 40 will do the opposite therefore you will keep changing it thinking there must be something "wrong". But each and everyone of us, have their own preferences and can improve ( give the right conversion method ) with any sensitivity. 

Well, that might be the case for YOU. Like you said, we are all different.. For example (CS:GO) Faze NiKo plays at 75cm/360 and has near perfect flick and tracing at the same time (probably the best aimer as of now) and scream, the legend, plays at 44cm/360 (as of now, was 41 before)

There's no sweetspot that fits everyone since we're all different But yea the best is to just pick one sens and stick with it until there's some science on how to find the perfect sens which will never come.

[MuntyYy]

You do realize that those guys can play with any sensitivity, right ? Shroud played cs:go with about 50 cm if im not mistaken, look what he does now in pubg with nearly half of that. The games play entirely different, but versatility, dedication, practice and game sense is what differentiate pro players from the regular folks. The secret of their success is not about what sensitivity they use in game "x". Develop a decent enough muscle memory and you'll understand the crap I am talking about.

Edited September 21, 2018 by MuntyYy

[Niki9984]

20 minutes ago, MuntyYy said:

You do realize that those guys can play with any sensitivity, right ? Shroud played cs:go with about 50 cm if im not mistaken, look what he does now in pubg with nearly half of that. The games play entirely different, but versatility, dedication, practice and game sense is what differentiate pro players from the regular folks. The secret of their success is not about what sensitivity they use in game "x". Develop a decent enough muscle memory and you'll understand the crap I am talking about.

They can, but not aim wise... Well yes, he's playing a COMPLETELY different game than before! Trust me, I did develop a really good muscle memory, was on semi-pro level for a while so I know what I'm talking about

Edited September 21, 2018 by Niki9984

[kelvinator]

3 hours ago, MuntyYy said:

You do realize that those guys can play with any sensitivity, right ? Shroud played cs:go with about 50 cm if im not mistaken, look what he does now in pubg with nearly half of that. The games play entirely different, but versatility, dedication, practice and game sense is what differentiate pro players from the regular folks. The secret of their success is not about what sensitivity they use in game "x". Develop a decent enough muscle memory and you'll understand the crap I am talking about.

I am a member over on the mouse subreddits and I find it interesting and sometimes amusing how obsessed people get over mice and tbh even sens stuff on this website. Everyone want's to be good like shroud. I mean I do and I care about mice and sens and stuff like everyone else on here but ultimately you are right. These people are so good because they play any given game for thousands of hours consistently. I am sure any of us would get really good at any game if we played every day for 8 hours a day consistently for a long time. Obviously they may have some genetics or strengths that elevate them to the elite level but throw any determined person into a game for 8 hours a day all the time and they will get quite good.

[kelvinator]

I was doing 25cm/360 for a while when I first got more competitive and now have been doing 30cm/360 for awhile now. it feels pretty good overall. I do wonder if I may be better with something like 35 cm/360 though. I am more of a palm griper/relaxed claw and I also get pretty emotionally invested in a game so my adrenaline gets going a lot which makes it tough sometimes not to overshoot and things like that so I have wondered if for me personally increasing my cm/360 would help compensate for my inability to remain calm in intense situations.

[potato psoas]

One objective way you can measure sensitivity is to ask yourself how fast you can consistently move your mouse. Is it 50cm/s, 1m/s, etc? This will help you measure how slow of a sens you may be able to use (depending on the size of your mousepad). You should aim to be able to flick to any target on the screen under 250ms, or I assume even lower since this does not take into account reaction time. So if your HFOV is 106.26, then the most you will need to flick is 53º of your full 360 Distance (or whatever aspect ratio you use). Then if we do some math we can calculate our slowest useable 360 distance:

If arm/wrist speed is 100cm/s, then distance moved per 250ms = 25cm

If 25cm : 53º and 360 Distance : 360º, then 360 Distance = (360/53) * 25cm = 170cm

This is just an example, but it's how you would go about calculating it. I'm not too sure how you'd go about this but you can mess around with the variables. 170cm/360 seems insanely slow lol. Maybe I could try it again with 180º flick and 100ms...

360 Distance = (360/180) * (100*.1) = 20cm

That's much more reasonable, I guess.

Edited September 21, 2018 by potato psoas

[Famatic]

I can't move my hand fast at all. My movement using my arm and wrist is about 19-20cm. That's how fast I can move it per second.  Since I pretty much suck at math I probably cant even calculate that.  Also when it comes to micro movements or super small movements I can't do that. It starts to feel like I have to squeeze my mouse even tighter and I dont like doing that.

[potato psoas]

1 hour ago, Famatic said:

I can't move my hand fast at all. My movement using my arm and wrist is about 19-20cm. That's how fast I can move it per second.  Since I pretty much suck at math I probably cant even calculate that.  Also when it comes to micro movements or super small movements I can't do that. It starts to feel like I have to squeeze my mouse even tighter and I dont like doing that.

20cm/s is pretty slow for arm, but alright for wrist aiming. Are you sure you can't move your arm any faster?

For the really small movements I dig my fingers into the mousepad and wiggle my fingers around, like when you have those long-range headshots to hit in CS:GO. But it doesn't work very well if you have to track the target because then your aim stutters from the friction. I'm thinking maybe there is a mousepad out there that has very little friction so I can keep doing this.

[Famatic]

35 minutes ago, potato psoas said:

20cm/s is pretty slow for arm, but alright for wrist aiming. Are you sure you can't move your arm any faster?

For the really small movements I dig my fingers into the mousepad and wiggle my fingers around, like when you have those long-range headshots to hit in CS:GO. But it doesn't work very well if you have to track the target because then your aim stutters from the friction. I'm thinking maybe there is a mousepad out there that has very little friction so I can keep doing this.

Sure I can extend it to somewhere 25-30cm maybe.. but my arm doesnt like it at all and it would tire my hand out really fast doing that. Yes I'm pretty sure.  if I calculated it correctly it would mean Im somewhere in 33.96 cm / 360 ? Although I mostly just play Overwatch. theres certain models that are really hard to hit.. like Baby Dva, Tracer and Widowmaker to some extent.  For small movements using your technique I'd have to also push my wrist more into the pad, I cant see myself doing this.

 

As for current peripherals Im using Zowie Fk2 and  DM pad as mousepad. Not sure if the mousepad has too much glide to it or not. Feels kinda fast. Will be trying out G pro wireless monday-tuesday to see how it is.

 

But well yeah... I cant move my hand any faster than that. Not to mention if I get stuck to enemy pace.. example them moving really fast I'd try to compensate and lose the sight of my own moving pace which makes it impossible to aim. However If Im conscious of myself and just stay calm and try to aim then It's somewhat okay.  I just can't really find a sensitivity that would suit me. It usually ends up me either moving too fast or too slow.. finding that middle ground seems hard. Especially considering how long I've been playing.  At times I feel like I should just quit playing CSGO/OW altogether ... then again I'd just get bored to death.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Famatic

[iBerggman]

0.2m/s can't be right, I assume you're estimating that? I mean, I can easily flick my mouse at >3m/s according to mousetester. Average tracking speed is another thing but I feel you should use the max speed you're able to consistently reach since that's what you theoretically would use when reacting to an enemy behind you, no? Now I'm not saying I'm constantly reaching 3m/s while gaming but it does make more sense to me to use that since I realistically could reach that if I happened to get caught off guard or something like that. I wonder if there's some software that measures tracking speed continuously that I could use to monitor my in game mouse movements, all the programs I have only measure when holding a button?

[Famatic]

39 minutes ago, iBerggman said:

0.2m/s can't be right, I assume you're estimating that? I mean, I can easily flick my mouse at >3m/s according to mousetester. Average tracking speed is another thing but I feel you should use the max speed you're able to consistently reach since that's what you theoretically would use when reacting to an enemy behind you, no? Now I'm not saying I'm constantly reaching 3m/s while gaming but it does make more sense to me to use that since I realistically could reach that if I happened to get caught off guard or something like that. I wonder if there's some software that measures tracking speed continuously that I could use to monitor my in game mouse movements, all the programs I have only measure when holding a button?

I actually tested it.  First using a ruler and then mouse tester. Both show 18-21cm. I  can't move more than that in a single swipe as fast as  I can. I tried to imagine a situation where I would have to turn 180 as fast as possible. if I move my arm/hand any faster than that it feels like it will come off or dislocate itself .

[potato psoas]

So I tried out mousetester and I'm not sure how it's measuring velocity, but it at least tells you the time and the counts plot. So I tested it and I am apparently moving 3m/s as well:

As you can see, my movement started at about 100ms and finished at about 500ms, so my flick took maybe like 400ms (or 200ms?). I also knew I flicked 30cm because I placed a ruler next to my mousepad.

But this means that my true speed is more like 0.75m/s, not 3m/s.

I'm thinking that the max speed isn't actually how fast you can move from one point to the next, but the graph shows you acceleration and deceleration. If you want true speed you need to calculate with [distance / time].

This means that the more space you have to accelerate, the faster your max speed can become, but this doesn't necessarily mean that this is the speed from point a to point b.

Edited September 23, 2018 by potato psoas

[Famatic]

My range of motion where I can do as fast as possible swipe is around 18-20cm though. This could also explain why my playstyle/movement is sort of slow. I'm amazed and a bit jealous of people who can actually move their hand/arm at such high speeds tbh. Then again I'm a small person around 164 cm height. I could see someone a bit bigger fellow being able to swing their mice around much easier. That's at least what I personally think.. not sure how much of that in reality is true.

[iBerggman]

40 minutes ago, potato psoas said:

So I tried out mousetester and I'm not sure how it's measuring velocity, but it at least tells you the time and the counts plot. So I tested it and I am apparently moving 3m/s as well:

As you can see, my movement started at about 100ms and finished at about 500ms, so my flick took maybe like 400ms (or 200ms?). I also knew I flicked 30cm because I placed a ruler next to my mousepad.

But this means that my true speed is more like 0.75m/s, not 3m/s.

I'm thinking that the max speed isn't actually how fast you can move from one point to the next, but the graph shows you acceleration and deceleration. If you want true speed you need to calculate with [distance / time].

This means that the more space you have to accelerate, the faster your max speed can become, but this doesn't necessarily mean that this is the speed from point a to point b.

Yeah admittedly I'm not too familiar with how to interpret the graphs but my understanding is that it shows the max tracking speed so yeah I suppose you'd have to calculate distance/time to get the actual speed of the 180.

"Velocity vs. Time: This uses the time interval between updates, the cpi, and the counts to calculate the velocity of the mouse movement. Using fast swipes you can try to get the malfunction rate of the mouse here. Just like Counts vs. Time going erratic, when the tracking is lost the velocity goes erratic as well."

We're starting to get out of my level of knowledge here but since you can also see the x and y counts in the last drop down option doesn't that make the ruler unnecessary since you can calculate the distance using the dpi and x counts if you limit the graph using "Data point start" and "Data point end" to between like 100ms and 500ms in your example?

[potato psoas]

17 minutes ago, iBerggman said:

Yeah admittedly I'm not too familiar with how to interpret the graphs but my understanding is that it shows the max tracking speed so yeah I suppose you'd have to calculate distance/time to get the actual speed of the 180.

"Velocity vs. Time: This uses the time interval between updates, the cpi, and the counts to calculate the velocity of the mouse movement. Using fast swipes you can try to get the malfunction rate of the mouse here. Just like Counts vs. Time going erratic, when the tracking is lost the velocity goes erratic as well."

We're starting to get out of my level of knowledge here but since you can also see the x and y counts in the last drop down option doesn't that make the ruler unnecessary since you can calculate the distance using the dpi and x counts if you limit the graph using "Data point start" and "Data point end" to between like 100ms and 500ms in your example?

In v1.2 it shows you the x-axis distance moved in the log, so I don't actually need to measure with my ruler or calculate it with the counts. It's way more accurate now. And I have been testing it out and made me realize something.

The thing I didn't think of was that your flick speed changes depending on how far you have to move your mouse. If you do a 30cm flick it'll probably take 200ms minimum but if you do a 5cm flick it'll probably take 100ms minimum. So if you want your flicks to a certain angle to have a faster speed then you also need to use a faster sensitivity... which is very interesting. Yet, the opposite happens with the little formula I created...

360 Distance = (360 / angle) * (arm speed * flick speed)

Not that the math is wrong, but I think the variables are dependent on each other. This is more likely to be the case:

[Famatic]

My brain overheating just by trying to figure it out. Sucks to be bad at math...

[kelvinator]

I have a G Pro Wireless. It's pretty nice. Feel like it might be just a tad small for palm grip for me though.

[Bryjoe]

On 9/21/2018 at 1:02 PM, Famatic said:

Someone should give ELI5 on hand-eye coordination .  I've been for very long being unable to settle on sensitivity so I might be switching it up after a week or after 2 months. I've been lately trying to practice following targets with my eyes rather than with my crosshair. However to me it seems like when I do this my hand doesn't really follow my eye movements. Not to mention I keep switching mice cause I start to feel uncomfortable with them after a while and same goes for mousepads. On top of that I even ended up switching grip styles.

 

I personally can play like maybe 50-60 cm /360 in CS:GO but in Overwatch I can not. I mean I did play around 70cm/360 in overwatch for couple months, but problem is that my aim and movements are slow. I'm not sure is this my "aiming style" but I can't move my hand fast. If I try to force it, it's like something hits breaks on my whole arm. Also swiping really fast and re-centering I can not do without being conscious of it.  Cause of all of this I've completely just forgotten and lost my own signature. I dont know am I flicker or tracker . Flicking makes my hand tire out really fast... while tracking feels like I can never be 100% on the target  and due to my slow aiming it feels like I cant turn 180 fast enough with lower sensitivities. 

 

Currently I've been playing with 32.55 cm /360 For about a month or so.. I have switched it from 28 to 30 to 32 during this time  and still can't really settle. I don't know how it seems so hard to figure out a sensitivity that feels right. Have been trying out these videos that tell you "your PERFECT sensitivity " I'm sure you have also heard of this method.  I guess Im just trying to look for a way to find one that would suit me.

 

3000 hours APB:Reloaded  (Quit the game due to the amount of cheaters)

3500 hours CS:GO  (Was supreme for a long time and now I've pretty much stoped playing CS and my MM floats around MGE)

1700 hours Overwatch  (2 games away from masters, then started dropping every season until I got stuck to high platinum and right now struggling staying at Diamond with 3100 SR)

I'm still trash.    I guess where I'm going with this is that I'd just like some help regarding my sensitivity.. as well as my addiction of buying mice and mousepads in hopes of finding that "one" . Any help or tips/tricks regarding this would be greatly appreciated.

Switching sensitivity all the time is not good for consistency. You know this, though. As for the "perfect sensitivity" obviously there is none, but certain games are more suited for high or low sensitivity. CSGO, most players use over 40 cm 360 and the majority of pros use 50+ cm 360. 50 cm is ill suited for fast paced games, however, although it can be done. There was a poll on this site recently asking what the most preferred sensitivity was and the most picked was 40cm 360, the reason for this is simple. This is a sensitivity that is precise enough for CSGO, but quick enough for the vertical movements common in Quake and other games.

For a sight like this where you want to match a single sensitivity across many games, it seems to be a happy medium. If you wanted to go higher like 30 cm/360 that works well for most games too, but I personally feel you start to struggle as a rifler at anything below 30/cm 360 in CSGO. TLDR anything between 30-45 cm/360 seems to be OK for any game, with 40-45 being the "happy medium" as it were.