Jedi's mouse trick

[DPI Wizard]

3 minutes ago, MacSquirrel_Jedi said:

I'm not so quick thinking person. So my response will be very slow and not to much useful i guess. But i'm sure that something is wrong. Because from your screenshot you received wrong 360° distance (4,8982). Right distance is (5,5143) i checked it in game to be sure.

That is because the sensitivity in CSGO is a bit backwards, you have to calculate the vertical sensitivity first, so that is what you'll see in default mode. So 4.8982 is the vertical 360 distance, if I set it in advanced mode to see all 360 distances you'll see that it's right for horizontal (i.e. m_yaw) 

[MacSquirrel_Jedi]

Now it's perfect

We should be able to fill range. It's grey out?

[DPI Wizard]

Beta can be tested here!

There's a few known bugs, in particular with swapping the calculation when using distance.

Note that favorites etc might get reset if necessary, but I hope it's not needed.

[DPI Wizard]

6 minutes ago, MacSquirrel_Jedi said:

Now it's perfect

We should be able to fill range. It's grey out?

For now it's the average between 0 and 100, do you think it's necessary to provide a customizable range?

It might just be more confusing I think.

[MacSquirrel_Jedi]

28 minutes ago, DPI Wizard said:

For now it's the average between 0 and 100, do you think it's necessary to provide a customizable range?

You are right. It will be better to take full advantage of this method. So everyone will feel the difference from other methods.

29 minutes ago, DPI Wizard said:

Beta  can be tested here!

Great  i will look at it more in detail during weekend.

Edited December 13, 2021 by MacSquirrel_Jedi

[MacSquirrel_Jedi]

I made a quick check for Win/Game and it looks like it working. But I can see that at default it matches horizontal. Definitively much better will be vertical match at default 

[DPI Wizard]

Just now, MacSquirrel_Jedi said:

I made a quick check for Win/Game and it looks like it working. But I can see that at default it matches horizontal. Definitively much better will be vertical match at default 

It does horizontal to horizontal, and if the games supports it then vertical to vertical.

[MacSquirrel_Jedi]

The beta behaving is not ideal. For me it's very confusing. I'm able to execute the trick for hipfire matched by vertical, but it's tricky. And i'm unable to execute the trick for Scope (CSGO AWP Zoom 1) matched by vertical.

I will try to prepare some examples if I have time. Good night ! Or maybe morning...

[DPI Wizard]

14 hours ago, MacSquirrel_Jedi said:

The beta behaving is not ideal. For me it's very confusing. I'm able to execute the trick for hipfire matched by vertical, but it's tricky. And i'm unable to execute the trick for Scope (CSGO AWP Zoom 1) matched by vertical.

I will try to prepare some examples if I have time. Good night ! Or maybe morning...

The vertical portion of the calculation is only linked to vertical sensitivity. Not a lot of games have this, and very few have a separate vertical sensitivity for ADS. And I think no game has individual vertical sensitivity for each scope. So you will in most cases only get the vertical sensitivity calculated for hipfire.

[MacSquirrel_Jedi]

49 minutes ago, DPI Wizard said:

And I think no game has individual vertical sensitivity for each scope

It's not neccesary. Because if you set different H/V sens for Hipfire. ADS will by affected as well. It has to be connected to each other in games, otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

59 minutes ago, DPI Wizard said:

So you will in most cases only get the vertical sensitivity calculated for hipfire

That's why the method should be based on vertical match at default for all aims. Because minimum players will use different sens for H/V in general.

[DPI Wizard]

2 hours ago, MacSquirrel_Jedi said:

That's why the method should be based on vertical match at default for all aims. Because minimum players will use different sens for H/V in general.

So both horizontal and vertical sensitivity based on vertical you mean? Even for games that supports vertical?

[MacSquirrel_Jedi]

17 minutes ago, DPI Wizard said:

So both horizontal and vertical sensitivity based on vertical you mean? Even for games that supports vertical?

i'm not to much sure what answer to this, but i guess yes... I'm just trying to say, that what ever game is selected the output sensitivity should firstly start from vertical. 

For now it will be better to leave it as it is. I will continue with testing for other scenarios 

[MacSquirrel_Jedi]

I checked few scenarios and it works.

Win/CS:GO - All / Zoomed 1 -> OK
CS:GO - Hipfire / Zoomed 1 -> OK
Win/PUBG - All / Scope2X -> OK
PUBG - Hipfire / Scope2X -> OK
Win/PUBG - Vertical Multiplier -> OK
Win/Apex Legends - All / 2X Scope -> OK
Apex Legends - Hipfire / 2X Scope -> OK

At current state the method is working good only for horizontal. But method is most powerfull for vertical (VFOV = HFOV = "1:1"). 
I think we will need separate method for H/V.

Also I found some strange behave for ADS/Scopes when aim "All" is selected. Maybe it's not a bug, but i don't understand it. It is present in public version too. Looks only Win/Game conversations are affected. It happen when the conversion methods (Win/2D / ADS / Scopes) are additionally changed . Try to switch "Windows / 2D" method from MDV 0% to: MDH 0% and you will see.

Edited December 18, 2021 by MacSquirrel_Jedi

[DPI Wizard]

17 hours ago, MacSquirrel_Jedi said:

This happens because CSGO with 3.340715/0.019542 is based on Windows. By converting this to PUBG you have a different source so the output will be different. 

Just like using the same numbers converting back to CSGO Vertical will not result in 3.340715:

https://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/?share=bfc87f71fae6eab73d2059bd4d376e9f

Because the calculator will never know what your original source was.

17 hours ago, MacSquirrel_Jedi said:

Also I found some strange behave for ADS/Scopes when aim "All" is selected. Maybe it's not a bug, but i don't understand it. It is present in public version too. Looks only Win/Game conversations are affected. It happen when the conversion methods (Win/2D / ADS / Scopes) are additionally changed . Try to switch "Windows / 2D" method from MDV 0% to: MDH 0% and you will see.

I think this is a bug indeed, and are looking into it.

[TheNoobPolice]

From the outset I would agree with Skwurul here that there is little value to this over any other arbitrary monitor distance "hack", and will likely produce results very similar to viewspeed v1, but in any case for the people that do want to use it - isn't the point of your system that you can define the maximum monitor distance to interp between that and the focal length scaled sensitivity? So let's say someone likes 50% mdh for high zooms, but 0% for low zooms, you could set 50%, so would be a lower mean than of 0-100%?

Seems there is already a value box in the calculator to apply the max percentage into

Edited December 31, 2021 by TheNoobPolice

[MacSquirrel_Jedi]

It still surprise me how many people here know so much... But no one is able to provide new method. How is it possible that so many people here still argue about monitor distance when this site is practicaly built on it. I provided the procedure so every one can use it even without the option that DPI Wizard provide to make it quicker. This is nothing new as i said already, it just a small improvement over existing method. Today its Jedi's Trick. Tomorrow it will be part of standard monitor distance, where you can specify if you want match to one point or to all points at given range.

I think Skwurul is pi55ed on me  maybe i will have to send our math queen some flowers... to cheer her up. Or maybe some interesting formula for her will be better  

Edited January 1, 2022 by MacSquirrel_Jedi

[TheNoobPolice]

On 12/4/2021 at 2:05 PM, MacSquirrel_Jedi said:

For me it's still not over. I have in my mind a idea of simulating game sensitivity in Windows. I plan to play with RawAccel in future. If the software will allow me to create a acceleration profile. I think I will be able to further remove the differences. 

So if it will be possible, we could create 3D sensitivity feel on 2D. Now imagine that you are playing actively for example eight games. And the hipfire VFOV between these eight games is between for example from 65° to 80°. So we could create a acceleration profile that will simulate an average of 72.5 ° in Windows. So transsition between these eight games will feel more smooth. This will further improve all methods across games  But it's just a theory in my head for the future. For now i know nothing about RawAccel ...

Just to note this is not possible to do what you are suggesting.

Any sort of FOV / zoom sensitivity scaling method describes a desired output velocity change at the crosshair between two different perspectives (i.e the FOV's), not input speeds. Any acceleration program takes a configurable calculated distance from your mouse input (which is usually sqrt(x^2+y^2) per poll) and sends that into a function to arrive at sensitivity value to multiply the passed-in (x,y) packet before it passes back out to the operating system. When your cursor / crosshair output velocity changes due to this acceleration, the relationship doesn’t change between the two FOV perspectives of a game due to the fundamental principle that they both increase velocity across the curve by the same ratio at all input speeds.

Consider this extremely simple acceleration curve (and yes, I'm aware a linear line is never a "curve" but because the output velocity does curve it is still referred to as such)



An input speed of 50 count/ms is 0.5x the sensitivity, at 200 counts/ms it is 0.75x the sensitivity, and at 300 counts ms it caps out to a static sensitivity of 1x. i.e if you were at 1600 DPI, the base of the curve would be effective 800DPI, the middle would be 1200DPI, and the cap would be 1600 DPI obviously.

Therefore we can consider the accel function is simply dynamically scaling the DPI of the mouse in real time. If you use the calculator and change DPI for any scaling method, then it doesn't change the ratio between the source and the target game's (or desktop's) sensitivity no matter what the actual output values are. Focal length scaling at the base of this accel curve between any two perspectives, is also focal length scaled at the cap between the two perspectives, and also at every point in between, and this would always be true no matter what output value was configured by the "Jedi's Trick" system also, and also to/from a 2D / desktop environment

[MacSquirrel_Jedi]

I still don't started work on it. So im still in dreams.

Imagine that acceleration profile will be active only in Windows and when you start play game, you will have to turn it off. Then the dream is coming to true 

Edited January 1, 2022 by MacSquirrel_Jedi

[Vampire]

The question I now have if it even makes sense to use "Jedi's Trick" when it comes to calculating anything other then Win/Game.

I personally am not sure what to convert when convertig hipfire. 360° distance or 0% MDV? When looking through the forum or just in the most recent posts, most thing I see is @Vaccariaposting this thread with the note "try this" which sounds promising but Jedis trick seems to be about 2D Windows to 3D Game the most, but barely seem to say something about using this Method for a game to game calculation, or even for using it to calculate ADS/Scope sens in one game itself

[Vaccaria]

It's not a panacea. I'm training in osu, testing a lot of settings for 24"16.9 and after many trials it's a great option. Once you have the warzone set up, next you just use the settings from warzone to another game. But remember, this is not effective if we are talking about shooters, and shooter games a lot, there may be more optimal settings. Settings are just numbers, you are training your body's interaction with the game(settings). Say in the game DBD, you will not use the exact data, as the game is built on very different laws of interaction, it is not necessary to accurately shoot for a survivor, but there are killers for which you need to hit. There are slow games, such as WoT in it you subconsciously will move your hand slowly, as from the rapid movements of the circle will become larger, and you do not even thinking about it, will try to do less movement, your body will be adjusted to different games, so the setting is an opportunity to adapt to the game. I, on the other hand, have long wanted to minimize the effects of going from osu to ow. But besides me, just starting to understand it, there were other people who started doing it a long time ago, they also shared their knowledge. Their knowledge is mathematical, while in my school days I treated mathematics with disdain, only now I began to study it.

[MacSquirrel_Jedi]

8 hours ago, Jega said:

I personally am not sure what to convert when convertig hipfire. 360° distance or 0% MDV?

It always depend on your preference. If you don't know what you're doing, let the calculator do its job. It work "ideally" at default. Reflecting many different games. To answer your question, 360° Distance generally makes the most sense for Hipfire.

8 hours ago, Jega said:

The question I now have if it even makes sense to use "Jedi's Trick" when it comes to calculating anything other then Win/Game.

This method can be used in any combination Win/Game/Scope/ADS. It will calculate average between 0% and 100% of monitor distance. But yes, "Win/Main game or aim" is most beneficial. And then for your "Main game/secondary games" you should let the calculator do its job in general.

If you use any method here in a wrong way, you will have no benefit from it. It's not always about the method, some job can be done also by a game (FOV change).

360° distance example: 360° distance is same for both games. It will feel same when oftenly looking around or behind yourself. But it will feel totally off during tracking or making a flick. Because H/VFOV is different (Monitor distances are different). 

Jedi's Trick example: Is the way how to find smallest deviation between all monitor distances. We received a different 360° distance by 22,7% but distances at monitor are greatly improved. 

360° Distance with optimized input example: If you optimize your input or output, you can receive better results. If we change in CS 1.6 resolution from 1920x1080 to 1280x960. Both aspect of sensitivity 360° distance and Monitor distance is same now. Because H/VFOV is same:

So at this setup all methods should give you same result for Hipfire sensitivity. Unfortunately it's not true for this calculator in this case (don't know why).

So it will always be about your preference and what you are willing to sacrifice for that. You can't have all.

Edited January 4, 2022 by MacSquirrel_Jedi

[randomguy7]

I have a question. when I convert from windows to game, should I set the aim to distance vertical or distance horizontal?

[DOTx4]

Do I set all settings to Jedi's Trick to convert from WINDOWS to 3D game?

[DPI Wizard]

5 hours ago, randomguy7 said:

I have a question. when I convert from windows to game, should I set the aim to distance vertical or distance horizontal?

Horizontal.

2 hours ago, DOTx4 said:

Do I set all settings to Jedi's Trick to convert from WINDOWS to 3D game?

Yes.

[kingdowning]

I would like to try this out for Battlefield.

Should I be doing it like this and copy the coefficient value it gives me along with the ADS values?

Or do I do it like this and leave my coefficient at 0, and then copy the ADS values it gives me?

Thank you