Thoughts on "high" sensitivity in current shooters

[Bryjoe]

So, I have been having trouble tracking fast moving players in BFV using 0% mm and have been trying to improve it through tracking drills in Kovaaks. I came across a guide by aimer7 where he states 20-25 cm 360 tends to be better for tracking. I did the PSA method (basically trying a ton of different sens low and high until you get to a perfect middle ground) and settled on 26cm 360 for tracking scenarios.

If we look at games like BFV, Apex, fortnite, Quake, virtually any modern game with ads tracking is preferable aim over precision flicks (csgo). I tried 26 cm in game and voila I can suddenly track those Usain bolt sprinter in BFV. Maybe it's my aim style or placebo, but it certainly is interesting. 26cm isn't really super high either it's just high for csgo. Is the precision offered through 40 cm 360 or higher even worth it when most games have ads? I am starting to think no.

[TheNoobPolice]

Exactly why I use custom accel curve these days. Totally removes this compromise

[Bryjoe]

22 minutes ago, TheNoobPolice said:

Exactly why I use custom accel curve these days. Totally removes this compromise

Yeah and some god aimers use accel for sure. I just am unsure the precision of low sens is needed in modern games. ADS already slows down the aim enough to be precise.  Hell most quakers, even ones with insane rails and aim, use high sens and the game doesn't even really utilize Aim down sights. Seems to me, when you are talking about the larger benefits of low sensitivity it applies to CSGO and not much else.

[TheNoobPolice]

Absolutely depends on the game. I wont disagree with you there.

I played a lot of Battlefield 3 & 4 and in those games, because of the ranges and the type of gunplay, even with ADS magnification and slow-down they really benefited from >50cm 360s, since you needed to "slow burst" on someone's head from 50+ meters away for the "optimal meta" which was often only about 10 pixels wide at 1080p depending on your FOV.

In later games, it moved to be a bit twitchier, with a lot more close range engagements so you can get away with faster sensitivity.

Still, I always like to be able to aim precisely at any individual pixel with the smallest amount of hand movement that I still feel I have completely control over - that's the crucial part. For me, I can't really move my mouse less than 2 millimetres without feeling like I don't have full control over the movement (This also ties into your mouse pad and mouse's weight, feet etc as well as your own motor skills). So my accel setup makes the slowest movement sens be around a 90cm 360 to facilitate that, and it ramps up fairly quickly to a 32cm 360 for moderate hand speeds.

[Bryjoe]

3 minutes ago, TheNoobPolice said:

Absolutely depends on the game. I wont disagree with you there.

I played a lot of Battlefield 3 & 4 and in those games, because of the ranges and the type of gunplay, even with ADS magnification and slow-down they really benefited from >50cm 360s, since you needed to "slow burst" on someone's head from 50+ meters away for the "optimal meta" which was often only about 10 pixels wide at 1080p depending on your FOV.

In later games, it moved to be a bit twitchier, with a lot more close range engagements so you can get away with faster sensitivity.

Still, I always like to be able to aim precisely at any individual pixel with the smallest amount of hand movement that I still feel I have completely control over - that's the crucial part. For me, I can't really move my mouse less than 2 millimetres without feeling like I don't have full control over the movement (This also ties into your mouse pad and mouse's weight, feet etc as well as your own motor skills). So my accel setup makes the slowest movement sens be around a 90cm 360 to facilitate that, and it ramps up fairly quickly to a 32cm 360 for moderate hand speeds.

Yeah, in BFV with 26 cm/360 a 2x scope is 52 cm 360 at 0% MM. ADS really slows things down enough. Like I said I have been using 40 cm for most of my PC gaming life, and it was noticeably easier to track targets in Kovakks (which is unscoped BTW) at 26cm compared to lower sens. If you add verticality, forget about it. I find tracking vertically to be incredibly difficult at low sens.  Tracking aim just seems so much more important than precision flicks. You can see some of this in the pro scene as well, Shroud using 30cm in Apex. 

[TheNoobPolice]

Low sens is generally better for tracking though, not the other way around. It doesn't make any sense otherwise. The only thing faster sens gives you really is better 180 and 90 degree flick / turn ability with less effort which is still important of course, and in some games more than others. 

Also, that PSA method is not useful - there's no such thing as "finding your sensitivity". It's all learned behaviour, its not like you have a natural biological sensitivity that you gravitate towards, despite what you might "feel", that's just the sum of all your learned behaviours creating a feel that you are used to and you adapt to different ones very quickly. There's also nothing really wrong with using different sensitivities in different games, despite the obsession gamers have with " matching everything" ....and yes, I understand the irony of that being that exact premise with which this site's existence is predicated upon, but the further I have gone down the rabbit hole with this, the more I realised that it's not muscle memory at all that you train when gaming, but simply hand-eye co-ordination and you are constantly adapting and altering constantly every time you aim at any point of your screen tempered by visual input. Aiming to every and any pixel has a different sensitivity on the monitor even without FOV changes, especially once you start deviating towards the poles and away from the equator, the "equivalent monitor distance", and therefore perceived horizontal sensitivity starts to reduce, and this is also a different amount of variation for every and any FOV in regards to this

[Bryjoe]

13 minutes ago, TheNoobPolice said:

Low sens is generally better for tracking though, not the other way around. It doesn't make any sense otherwise. The only thing faster sens gives you really is better 180 and 90 degree flick / turn ability with less effort which is still important of course, and in some games more than others. 

Also, that PSA method is not useful - there's no such thing as "finding your sensitivity". It's all learned behaviour, its not like you have a natural biological sensitivity that you gravitate towards, despite what you might "feel", that's just the sum of all your learned behaviours creating a feel that you are used to and you adapt to different ones very quickly. There's also nothing really wrong with using different sensitivities in different games, despite the obsession gamers have with " matching everything" ....and yes, I understand the irony of that being that exact premise with which this site's existence is predicated upon, but the further I have gone down the rabbit hole with this, the more I realised that it's not muscle memory at all that you train when gaming, but simply hand-eye co-ordination and you are constantly adapting and altering constantly every time you aim at any point of your screen tempered by visual input. Aiming to every and any pixel has a different sensitivity on the monitor even without FOV changes, especially once you start deviating towards the poles and away from the equator, the "equivalent monitor distance", and therefore perceived horizontal sensitivity starts to reduce, and this is also a different amount of variation for every and any FOV in regards to this

Well, again according to aimer 7, really the only guide online I could find on the subject, tracking is easier at higher sensitivities. Click Targeting (or basically flicking and popping heads as you see in every CSGO training map) is better at low sensitivity.

Let's look at Quake's verticality and LG tracking as the most extreme in-game example of tracking prowess. Why do you think most of those guys gravitate towards sens under 30cm/360? Some of them even add accel on TOP of that high sens. LG pinning someone hitting a jump pad in Quake is harder on low sens (the arm movement required is insane and a real workout). Average sensitivity for Overwatch pros is 27 cm/360. Generally must faster for heros like Gengi and Tracer and slower for heros like Widow (again click-timing aim versus tracking aim).

It's food for thought, I am trying a high sens for awhile seems to work well.

[noaimBoii]

40 minutes ago, Bryjoe said:

Well, again according to aimer 7, really the only guide online I could find on the subject, tracking is easier at higher sensitivities. Click Targeting (or basically flicking and popping heads as you see in every CSGO training map) is better at low sensitivity.

Let's look at Quake's verticality and LG tracking as the most extreme in-game example of tracking prowess. Why do you think most of those guys gravitate towards sens under 30cm/360? Some of them even add accel on TOP of that high sens. LG pinning someone hitting a jump pad in Quake is harder on low sens (the arm movement required is insane and a real workout). Average sensitivity for Overwatch pros is 27 cm/360. Generally must faster for heros like Gengi and Tracer and slower for heros like Widow (again click-timing aim versus tracking aim).

It's food for thought, I am trying a high sens for awhile seems to work well.

lower sense is always more smooth and precise on smaller targets. With enough practice on higher sens you can erase most of the imprecision, but lower sens should still be marginally better. 90cm/360 would not work for tracking fast moving targets at closer range and would suffer from a lot more inertia, which makes tracking fast ADAD movements a lot harder. You can get away with such a low sens in BFV because targets can't ADAD spam really quickly, and then with accel you can do quick 180s to snap to targets around you. CSGO players do not need to do such quick snaps because they would be dead if a player comes from behind, which is why the most players use very low sens. They simply don't need the benefit of higher sens. If you want to be a versatile player, go for higher/medium sense around20-35cm. If you want to specialize in more tactical shooters or in more tactical playstyles, then lower sens is better (but honestly just slightly).

[Dribbler]

26cm/360 is only high by CS standarts and can be considered as mid-low sens basically, which is more then enough for both tracking and flicking, especially if there are ADS as you mentioned.

On a side note i find it harder to track small fast strafing targets on high sens (by high i refer to 20cm and less), while being able to hit nicely without zoom /ADS by 1 shot hitscan weapons like railgun, sniper etc even on smth like 17-18cm. Prolly depends on aim technique: to achieve those high accuracies on a high sens i turn in general direction of an enemy and then without arm being involved just do microcorrection by wrist/fingers. Might be benefitial in some ways to just do that few mm final flick instead of trying to flick all the way up 30-40cm distance. But since this trick couldnt be fully replicated when tracking, that aspect of aim suffers a bit 

[HeavyHitters]

12 hours ago, Bryjoe said:

So, I have been having trouble tracking fast moving players in BFV using 0% mm and have been trying to improve it through tracking drills in Kovaaks. I came across a guide by aimer7 where he states 20-25 cm 360 tends to be better for tracking. I did the PSA method (basically trying a ton of different sens low and high until you get to a perfect middle ground) and settled on 26cm 360 for tracking scenarios.

If we look at games like BFV, Apex, fortnite, Quake, virtually any modern game with ads tracking is preferable aim over precision flicks (csgo). I tried 26 cm in game and voila I can suddenly track those Usain bolt sprinter in BFV. Maybe it's my aim style or placebo, but it certainly is interesting. 26cm isn't really super high either it's just high for csgo. Is the precision offered through 40 cm 360 or higher even worth it when most games have ads? I am starting to think no.

What DPI are you at?

[DNAMTE]

I'm fairly sure cypher played with around 30cm? in quake, uses around 41 in apex, as does skadoodle, mendokusaii is another using around 43cm. All of these guys track and flick very well, sensitivity is personal preference.

I can recommend using a higher sensitivity for practice though, i find using <20cm in kovacs can really improve your motor skills with fine adjustment, you'll notice going back to a slower sens your micro adjustment is much sharper.  

[Bryjoe]

1 hour ago, DNAMTE said:

I'm fairly sure cypher played with around 30cm? in quake, uses around 41 in apex, as does skadoodle, mendokusaii is another using around 43cm. All of these guys track and flick very well, sensitivity is personal preference.

I can recommend using a higher sensitivity for practice though, i find using <20cm in kovacs can really improve your motor skills with fine adjustment, you'll notice going back to a slower sens your micro adjustment is much sharper.  

Cypher uses 27, the new sens I have settled on is 26. Cypher also has some accel I believe. So, when it's just a target moving left to right quickly on close or long strafes I find a bit lower sens to be better (in the 35-40cm range). When you introduce verticality (as you see very often in Fortnite and Quake, and Apex to a lesser extent) I find 25-30 cm to work best.

I have no doubt it's possible to track well at the 40cm range, the issue i normally have is I have to re-position my mouse (good players like skadoodle seem to always have their mouse in a good position). Anyways, like @TheNoobPolice said there are definitely certain ranges that suit different games. If we are talking about a sensitivity that is good for everything from Quake to CSGO (kind of the purpose of this site) I would probably say 40 cm is the high end of that limit.

[DNAMTE]

10 hours ago, Bryjoe said:

Cypher uses 27, the new sens I have settled on is 26. Cypher also has some accel I believe. So, when it's just a target moving left to right quickly on close or long strafes I find a bit lower sens to be better (in the 35-40cm range). When you introduce verticality (as you see very often in Fortnite and Quake, and Apex to a lesser extent) I find 25-30 cm to work best.

I have no doubt it's possible to track well at the 40cm range, the issue i normally have is I have to re-position my mouse (good players like skadoodle seem to always have their mouse in a good position). Anyways, like @TheNoobPolice said there are definitely certain ranges that suit different games. If we are talking about a sensitivity that is good for everything from Quake to CSGO (kind of the purpose of this site) I would probably say 40 cm is the high end of that limit.

You can find his settings on his twitch https://www.twitch.tv/cypher

Apex 41.56cm 

QC 32cm + accel

 

Not that it matters. 

[Bryjoe]

On 6/22/2019 at 8:49 PM, DNAMTE said:

You can find his settings on his twitch https://www.twitch.tv/cypher

Apex 41.56cm 

QC 32cm + accel

 

Not that it matters. 

You're right. I dunno, it's either how I aim or something else, but it really has improved my game. I can quickly ads to additional targets better than I ever could at 40 cm. Once these new G-wolves mice come out that are super lightweight I am going to buy them. I currently use the Mamba wireless which is 106 grams, not really the best mouse for low sensitivity on fast-paced games. A lot of quakers use something like the FK2, which is only 85 grams.

I just thought I would share how I have actually improved by going to a higher sens, when the pervasive theory is that it's the other way around. You can see for yourself in Kovaak's try the "Vertical Long Strafe" drill at high (25 to 30cm) versus low sens (35-40cm). High it's noticeably easier to track the vertically moving target. The opposite is true on the "close strafe" drill. A target moving quickly left to right close to you is better on low sens.

 

Average cm/360 for Overwatch is 27

Average cm/360 for Apex is 28, so Skadoodle actually has a pretty low sens compared to other pros, he obviously is one of the best players in the world, though.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Bryjoe

[Comrade881]

low sens is shit give u nothing 

[DNAMTE]

19 hours ago, Bryjoe said:

You're right. I dunno, it's either how I aim or something else, but it really has improved my game. I can quickly ads to additional targets better than I ever could at 40 cm. Once these new G-wolves mice come out that are super lightweight I am going to buy them. I currently use the Mamba wireless which is 106 grams, not really the best mouse for low sensitivity on fast-paced games. A lot of quakers use something like the FK2, which is only 85 grams.

I just thought I would share how I have actually improved by going to a higher sens, when the pervasive theory is that it's the other way around. You can see for yourself in Kovaak's try the "Vertical Long Strafe" drill at high (25 to 30cm) versus low sens (35-40cm). High it's noticeably easier to track the vertically moving target. The opposite is true on the "close strafe" drill. A target moving quickly left to right close to you is better on low sens.

 

Average cm/360 for Overwatch is 27

Average cm/360 for Apex is 28, so Skadoodle actually has a pretty low sens compared to other pros, he obviously is one of the best players in the world, though.

I would bet you're used to pivoting rather than moving your arm, vertical strafe on low sens requires you to move your arm and break pivot, high sens will allow your fingers to complete the majority of vertical movement.

In the end, practice anything and you will improve, high or low, there's enough pro players on both ends of the spectrum, either can and will work if you practice it enough.

[Pyroxia]

in cs go my cm/360 is 38cm this gives me good aim control. But in apex legends I'm using 31 cm basically my sensitivity is same cuz I'm using 80VFov in apex and matching my sens with %0MDH. If I need to play faster games I'm just increasing my fov. I didn't lost my muscle memory for cs go or other games try this.

[Ryzzen117]

Le 21/06/2019 à 17:09, Bryjoe a dit :

So, I have been having trouble tracking fast moving players in BFV using 0% mm and have been trying to improve it through tracking drills in Kovaaks. I came across a guide by aimer7 where he states 20-25 cm 360 tends to be better for tracking. I did the PSA method (basically trying a ton of different sens low and high until you get to a perfect middle ground) and settled on 26cm 360 for tracking scenarios.

If we look at games like BFV, Apex, fortnite, Quake, virtually any modern game with ads tracking is preferable aim over precision flicks (csgo). I tried 26 cm in game and voila I can suddenly track those Usain bolt sprinter in BFV. Maybe it's my aim style or placebo, but it certainly is interesting. 26cm isn't really super high either it's just high for csgo. Is the precision offered through 40 cm 360 or higher even worth it when most games have ads? I am starting to think no.

Global elite CSGO veteran here + player of various other FPS and fast FPS including Quake, 
You gotta stop thinking your sensitivy is the problem, nor is your "360 distance"
No pros ever used that "PSA thing" to get good.

You first need to find a way to hold your mouse that allows you to move (no matter your sens) and control every movement you can do with a mouse (vertical, diagonal, horizontal, and thus, no matter the distance of the movements) the most confortable and natural way.
Only then you can take a sensitivy you will feel confortable with, a sensitivy slow enough for your brain to process your movement with 100% control, and fast enough so you don't slow down your reflexes either.
When you got both, now you can practice and build a muscle memory out of it, it will speed up your aiming speed.

I don't know if I make myself clear (english isn't my first language)
But the PSA method is both good and not good, you indeed have to be able to track a point while moving, but that has to be a consequence of you finding your right way to control your mouse, not the the opposit. Otherwise, it means your mouse control your mouvement, instead of you controling your mouse.

Second thing, to aim well, as I previously said, you first need to learn how to perfectly control your mouse. But there is another thing, aim is about hand / eyes coordination.
When your learned the hand part, you now need to learn how to aim with your eyes. Track moving objects, train your eyes, only then you will truly improve your aim, and, unlike the PSA method, your aim will stay no matter the FPS (and you will have a much better understanding on how to continiously improve).

Yes it is harder and take more time.

Yes there is no magic way to get good, PSA method included.
 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Ryzzen117

[Bryjoe]

4 hours ago, DNAMTE said:

I would bet you're used to pivoting rather than moving your arm, vertical strafe on low sens requires you to move your arm and break pivot, high sens will allow your fingers to complete the majority of vertical movement.

In the end, practice anything and you will improve, high or low, there's enough pro players on both ends of the spectrum, either can and will work if you practice it enough.

I think it's fundamentally the way that I aim. I aim with my arm but it seems to get "stuck" at low sens when I'm tracking a quickly moving target. I think that may be technique. 26cm isn't really that high though, certainly not high enough where I am not moving my arm when tracking vertically or horizontally, it's just less arm movement. I think I never properly trained for low sensitivity arm movement. Anyways, I am not having any issues being accurate at 26cm, and it really enables me to have more situational awareness and movement ability than I ever could at 40cm.