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Got a new bigger monitor, should I be making conversions? Also really confused about a couple of conversions regarding the bigger screen change


Go to solution Solved by TheNoobPolice,

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Ok, so here's the situation, I've been playing OW2 as my main game since it came out and I've been wanting to go back to Rainbow Six and made the conversions for that so all good (OW2 24inch to Siege 24inch)

BUT I also got a bigger monitor (FHD24>QHD27) and at first I thought there would be no need to change anything since I'll be playing at the same aspect ratios and the image is just bigger but then I went and double checked the conversions from 24 to 27 from OW2(24) to Siege(27) and Siege(24) to Siege(27) and not only are they very different values from the 24 versions, they are also different from eachother

Not even mentioning the fact that when going from OW2(24) to OW2(27) the base sensitivity stays the same but somehow the calculator tells me to change the Widow/Ana Scope, when everyone knows to get a 1:1 you need a 37.89% and if it tells me to keep the 3.5 it makes no sense to change the Scoped sensitivity

 

I'm just really confused about this, maybe I'm doing something wrong or I'm not really undersanting the info it's giving me.

What should I do? Keep the same settings I had or change to the new conversions? If so, then which one is the true 1:1? OW2(24) to Siege(27) or OW2(24) to Siege(24) to Siege(27)? What about when going from OW2(24) to OW2(27) telling me to change the scoped sens? I'm really confused about all this, in my mind there should be no change but calculator disagrees

below are the screenshots of everything

OW2 24 to Siege 24:image.thumb.png.dc017b2b456b984ba79281fb93a4c4c3.png

image.thumb.png.236b10d1a5157c922455719a2591ae23.png

 

Siege 24 to Siege 27:

(the reason the sens went from 75 to 79 was to keep the Max discrepancy at a minimum)
image.thumb.png.114eae9589c19ecb540206d07fd75fe6.png

image.thumb.png.e18f8f359b527e5cc86dafbf7a8bec45.png

now to the other 27inch values
 

OW2 24 to Siege 27:

(again, went for 71 sens to keep discrepancy at a minimum)

image.thumb.png.e1432f32e7f4530017a18caa349a8de4.png

image.thumb.png.ea53a149fd58300e805568484fabdb9e.png


finally, here's the weird situation with OW2

OW2 24 to OW2 27:

image.thumb.png.19fad87b15d725e2ce706f7f25b0ccb7.png

image.thumb.png.0d229b3ea10989181733f61ffc5c8a65.png

 

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You have not specified what conversion method you are using, but assuming you are using 0% or some other monitor distance (as there would be no difference on 360 distance) then because the target screen is larger there is a different perspective, and this is what the calculator is compensating for with any monitor distance. The physical distance to the edge of a 24" screen is only 89% of that of a 27" screen.

You don't have to match this, you can totally ignore the factor by setting both screens to the same size in the calculator. You will find your sensitivity feels different in some way regardless of what you do. There is never "true 1:1" matching between different FOV's or screen sizes as an absolute statement, only a "pick what aspect of conversion want to be 1:1". I am not sure what you mean by saying "everyone knows 1:1 sens is 37.89%" as this cannot be true for all definitions of "matched sensitivity".

When I moved to a larger screen temporarily, I made an unscaled resolution that was 24" for 1st person shooters (with black bars) and then just used the 27" for the desktop and 3rd person / controllers games. If you do want to use the full 27" size for everything, then my advice would be to just adapt to the new focal length, you may find your brain just figures this out for you and it feels "the same" very quickly without any changes.

You could do the opposite, and match the new 27" ADS focal length / monitor distance to your 24" hipfire sensitivity, but then the hipfire on 27" is going to be more sensitive vs ADS than it used to be, by a factor of 27/24 = 1.125x

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17 hours ago, TheNoobPolice said:

You have not specified what conversion method you are using, but assuming you are using 0% or some other monitor distance (as there would be no difference on 360 distance) then because the target screen is larger there is a different perspective, and this is what the calculator is compensating for with any monitor distance. The physical distance to the edge of a 24" screen is only 89% of that of a 27" screen.

I am using the default, as in I didn't change a thing:

image.thumb.png.85e3bd7a042085a642d854763ace4807.png

17 hours ago, TheNoobPolice said:

You don't have to match this, you can totally ignore the factor by setting both screens to the same size in the calculator. You will find your sensitivity feels different in some way regardless of what you do. There is never "true 1:1" matching between different FOV's or screen sizes as an absolute statement, only a "pick what aspect of conversion want to be 1:1".

Oh I see, I guess that would be the best course of action in this situation tbh

 

17 hours ago, TheNoobPolice said:

I am not sure what you mean by saying "everyone knows 1:1 sens is 37.89%" as this cannot be true for all definitions of "matched sensitivity".

I heard and seen a lot of people talking about that number, its even the same that this calculator uses when you try to make your aim the same:

image.thumb.png.3fea50a6c0185a0b81260ef7aa922f30.png

but when digging about this a little more I found out that this is only true for small flicks, if you do bigger flicks the 1:1 is lost, I had no idea

 

17 hours ago, TheNoobPolice said:

then my advice would be to just adapt to the new focal length, you may find your brain just figures this out for you and it feels "the same" very quickly without any changes.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of doing and also like I said in the post, it's what made sense for me at first

 

17 hours ago, TheNoobPolice said:

You could do the opposite, and match the new 27" ADS focal length / monitor distance to your 24" hipfire sensitivity, but then the hipfire on 27" is going to be more sensitive vs ADS than it used to be, by a factor of 27/24 = 1.125x

Technically that was the goal yes, to match my hipfire from OW2 to Siege's ADS, hipfire doesn't really matter in siege as long as its faster than the ADS for better moving around so that would kinda work in my favor
But I thought that's what I already had anyway? At least that's what I was trying to do when I was using the calculator to go from OW2 hipfire (24in) to Siege's ADS (27in) or just Siege's ADS (24in) to Siege's ADS (27in) but I couldve messed up something 

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12 hours ago, Quackerjack said:

check this topic out there is great info for you:

 

I'm a bit confused with this post cause like TheNoobPolice said in the reply above, DPI wizard also said that there should be no changes when going to a bigger/smaller monitor but because of the size difference there could be perceived differently:

image.thumb.png.7a3edca3a69b8c9b509da9fd71657281.png

But then you guys said on the other replies that he should adjust to a bit higher to match the size increase, and my confusion here is because some say leave it the same and other are saying to change, so which one is the better one after all? which one is going to give me the "same aim" or "same feel" since thats basically the whole point of the website xD

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For me I can’t stay on the same sensitivity when I switch monitor. 
 

The topic I linked for you has a Formular in it. With this Formular you calculate your new FoV for your new monitor and your sens cm 360 and perceived sensitivity stays the same.  
 

(360 arctan(27/24 * tan((103 * pi/180)/2)))/pi = 109.47524160212716

https://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/?share=f0600ad3374645a7a82f656b526eabe6

 

Iam not sure if you can change FoV in Overwatch, if you cant this would be right:

https://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/?share=450a51e93e20a8827c69007a4d6d1b12

Edited by Quackerjack
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8 hours ago, GoncasN said:

I'm a bit confused with this post cause like TheNoobPolice said in the reply above, DPI wizard also said that there should be no changes when going to a bigger/smaller monitor but because of the size difference there could be perceived differently:
But then you guys said on the other replies that he should adjust to a bit higher to match the size increase...

The reason for the difference is due to the definitions of sensitivity and which one someone favours to recommend matching.

DPI Wizard is referring to the 3D sensitivity in the game world - the "game sensitivity". Changing monitor size does not change the distance per count. If 1 count from the mouse = 0.0066 degrees turned in-game (i.e OW yaw value) then changing your monitor size doesn't change that.

What Drimzi explains in the thread is effectively the 2D sensitivity within screen space, from the 3D projection of the game onto your monitor. Here, at any given FOV, a change in screen size will result in a different "pixels worth" of distance travelled in 2D "on your screen" at the crosshair. Because we perceive sens visually as the 2D image displacement (there is a non-visual perception also, such as the learned movement required for "off-screen aiming" - 180 degree turns, 90 degree flicks etc), this could be thought of more mathematically correct as "the sensitivity" and this is what "focal length scaling" preserves and why the calculator's output produces different values for your new screen size.

Although gamers are used to "360 distance" as sensitivity, this is not really correct and is really a misnomer. The sensitivity of any function is a unitless ratio of the output to the input. If my input is 2 and my output is 3 of "something", then such a transfer function has a sensitivity of 3/2 = 1.5. The way we express sensitivity as a distance, is by framing it against a physical constant such as a DPI value (real-world distance along a flat 2D plane) against a yaw value (virtual 3D-world angle change), but you could replace the latter with the image velocity at screen centre which would also take into account the screen size and FOV. I actually agree that using focal length as the constant for sensitivity measurement makes more sense than using virtual degrees per count since we all play games on 2D displays, but I doubt the current convention will ever change.

Anyway, bottom line is that I think your initial hunch was most likely correct for you, and your path of least resistance as far as adapting to your change in screen size is to not make any changes to your settings.

Edited by TheNoobPolice
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On 12/16/2022 at 11:23 AM, Quackerjack said:

For me I can’t stay on the same sensitivity when I switch monitor. 
 

The topic I linked for you has a Formular in it. With this Formular you calculate your new FoV for your new monitor and your sens cm 360 and perceived sensitivity stays the same.  
 

(360 arctan(27/24 * tan((103 * pi/180)/2)))/pi = 109.47524160212716

https://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/?share=f0600ad3374645a7a82f656b526eabe6

 

 

Both Overwatch and Rainbow six siege cant go higher than the FOV I currently have, 103 for overwatch and 90 for siege

so the only thing i can change to get the same perceived sensitivity is the sensitivity itself

On 12/16/2022 at 11:23 AM, Quackerjack said:

Iam not sure if you can change FoV in Overwatch, if you cant this would be right:

https://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/?share=450a51e93e20a8827c69007a4d6d1b12

when trying to go from overwatch to siege and siege to siege i was already using te monitor distance vertical, i just need to change the hipfire to that aswell, also why is vertical for ads and scope and horizontal for hipfire?

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On 12/16/2022 at 4:27 PM, TheNoobPolice said:

I actually agree that using focal length as the constant for sensitivity measurement makes more sense than using virtual degrees per count since we all play games on 2D displays, but I doubt the current convention will ever change.

On 12/16/2022 at 4:27 PM, TheNoobPolice said:

this could be thought of more mathematically correct as "the sensitivity" and this is what "focal length scaling" preserves and why the calculator's output produces different values for your new screen size.

wait isnt this what I was trying to do? getting new sensitivity values to try to preserve the "focal lenght" of a smaller screen to keep the same "feel" ingame? as opposed to keeping the same settings and keep the same 360 but get a new focal lenght that I would need to adjust?

 

On 12/16/2022 at 4:27 PM, TheNoobPolice said:

The reason for the difference is due to the definitions of sensitivity and which one someone favours to recommend matching.

what do you mean which one? 360/cm vs focal lentgh? cause if so, I choose the later as from what I understood, was my goal when using the calculator

 

On 12/16/2022 at 4:27 PM, TheNoobPolice said:

Anyway, bottom line is that I think your initial hunch was most likely correct for you, and your path of least resistance as far as adapting to your change in screen size is to not make any changes to your settings.

So you think I would benefit more of adjusting to the new focal lenght instead of changing the sensitivity to try to preserve the focal lenght across screens? wouldn't the latter be more aligned with my goal in coming here though?

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24 minutes ago, GoncasN said:

@philheath I was hoping to use the native resolution in games though as that, from my understanding, is gonna give me a sharper image

The no scaling mode means it will have black border around the image, and it will be as sharp as native, because it's not stretching anything or fitted it to 27 inches 

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1 hour ago, philheath said:

The no scaling mode means it will have black border around the image, and it will be as sharp as native, because it's not stretching anything or fitted it to 27 inches 

ah I see, altough I would rather not have the bars, thats why I wasnt even talking about that as an option

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On 12/17/2022 at 9:27 PM, GoncasN said:

wait isnt this what I was trying to do? getting new sensitivity values to try to preserve the "focal lenght" of a smaller screen to keep the same "feel" ingame? as opposed to keeping the same settings and keep the same 360 but get a new focal lenght that I would need to adjust?

It's a case of picking your poison, because if you match the focal length scaled sens of 27" ADS to 24" ADS, then your hipfire with 27" is no longer matched by focal length unless you change it. In other words, whilst actually playing the game; your sens will slow down more when you aim than it would do with a focal length match to hipfire. You could then choose to adjust your hipfire sensitivity so that it is also matched by focal length, but this then means your 360 / navigation movements (180 turns etc) are a different distance than before on 24". It's my experience this is often more problematic than just adapting to a different velocity at screen centre.

Up to you though, you just have to choose what you want to be matched and what you want to change.

You could also do what I did and what philheath is suggesting, and use a 24" unscaled resolution and just benefit from the pixel density and any other stat improvements on your new monitor without any sensitivity adaptations required. I would give it a try before dismissing it as I think it is a good solution especially for competitive shooters where you may have already built-up a good level of play on a given setup.

Edited by TheNoobPolice
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On 12/19/2022 at 12:25 AM, TheNoobPolice said:

because if you match the focal length scaled sens of 27" ADS to 24" ADS, then your hipfire with 27" is no longer matched by focal length unless you change it.

That's probably the ideal scenario for Rainbow Six Siege since you shouldn't even be shooting without ADS and I was gonna change it to something that would give me a 360 on my full mousepad anyway so yeah that sounds like the best option tbh and I can always just revert the changes if i don't like them

Could you help me out with that? What do I need to input on the calculator for that result?

On 12/19/2022 at 12:25 AM, TheNoobPolice said:


You could also do what I did and what philheath is suggesting, and use a 24" unscaled resolution and just benefit from the pixel density and any other stat improvements on your new monitor without any sensitivity adaptations required. I would give it a try before dismissing it as I think it is a good solution especially for competitive shooters where you may have already built-up a good level of play on a given setup.

That doesn't sound bad at all tbh but I'm going for that as a last resort if I can't adapt to the rest of the changes as I'm not a big fan of the black bars bit I'll keep that in mind 

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12 hours ago, TheNoobPolice said:

why did you make the conversion from ADS to Hip? why did you put the same resolution in both? sorry I dont really understand that conversion

 

Shouldn't I be doing this instead? or am I going at this wrong?

image.thumb.png.f99e17ae7d478fd976294b86731374a4.png

image.thumb.png.b0b2c375546f96038be89d10ad235a03.png

Cause like you mentioned before

On 12/19/2022 at 12:25 AM, TheNoobPolice said:

because if you match the focal length scaled sens of 27" ADS to 24" ADS, then your hipfire with 27" is no longer matched by focal length unless you change it

and what I want matched is the ADS not the hipfire, the hipfire its gonna be changed later on to match the needs as its only used to traverse around and not shoot

 

Sorry I'm troubling you so much with this, I just really wanna get things right

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13 hours ago, GoncasN said:

why did you make the conversion from ADS to Hip? why did you put the same resolution in both? sorry I dont really understand that conversion

Because you asked this:

On 20/12/2022 at 06:46, GoncasN said:

Could you help me out with that? What do I need to input on the calculator for that result?

So I showed you what your hipfire sens settings would be if you wanted to keep your ADS "focal length scaled" from what you are used to on 24", and also then scale the hipfire by focal length from that new ADS sens. Since the way the sens variables are implemented in R6S is effectively a car crash of circular dependencies, you have to change different variables to get the same result.

But really, what you are doing doesn't really make any sense to do that anyway, because I didn't realise your old hipfire sens on 24" wasn't matched by focal length anyway to your old 1.0x zoom, because you massively reduced the ADS sens to 38. In other words, you were previously using 76% of focal length scaling for your ADS:

https://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/?share=0dd5017571bb8a58de48b3acfc8b5e6e

i.e 


image.png.490e3839c896a5eab59990f3eefd550b.png

So basically, all you need to do is set as per these values on your new monitor

image.png.1254fe1e2f0cc3b8c7a569218259a331.png

and to hell with the hipfire sens, cause you were never using anything other than an arbitrary value anyway and it doesn't seem like you really care about that.

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21 hours ago, TheNoobPolice said:

and to hell with the hipfire sens, cause you were never using anything other than an arbitrary value anyway and it doesn't seem like you really care about that.

That's what I've been saying from the start, hip fire doesn't matter that's why I only care about the ADS vs ADS values, my ADS in siege is my normal hip fire in Overwatch 

21 hours ago, TheNoobPolice said:


But really, what you are doing doesn't really make any sense to do that anyway, because I didn't realise your old hipfire sens on 24" wasn't matched by focal length anyway to your old 1.0x zoom, because you massively reduced the ADS sens to 38. In other words, you were previously using 76% of focal length scaling for your ADS:

I'm sorry what? Did I do something wrong here when I was matching the OW hipfire to Siege ADS? I only put de ADS sense to 38 cause that's what the calculator said to do, like I said in the start haven't played siege in a long time the values i have there are conversions from OW2 hipfire (my current main game) to Siege ADS and not to hipfire as that doesn't matter 

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On 22/12/2022 at 16:33, GoncasN said:

That's what I've been saying from the start, hip fire doesn't matter that's why I only care about the ADS vs ADS values, my ADS in siege is my normal hip fire in Overwatch 

I'm sorry what? Did I do something wrong here when I was matching the OW hipfire to Siege ADS? I only put de ADS sense to 38 cause that's what the calculator said to do, like I said in the start haven't played siege in a long time the values i have there are conversions from OW2 hipfire (my current main game) to Siege ADS and not to hipfire as that doesn't matter 

The reason is because you matched your R6S ADS to Overwatch hipfire by focal length, but your R6S Seige hipfire is a different FOV than Overwatch

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On 12/24/2022 at 12:10 AM, TheNoobPolice said:

The reason is because you matched your R6S ADS to Overwatch hipfire by focal length, but your R6S Seige hipfire is a different FOV than Overwatch

Ok so let's go to the root of the problem, how should I convert my OW2 hipfire to R6S ADS to keep the same feel, since it's hipfire to ads i might have messed up something 

I'm saying ADS cause that's where you shoot, hipfire on siege it's only for movement so it doesn't need matching, ALTHOUGH IF it needs to be matched for a better conversion accuracy it's cool 

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On 25/12/2022 at 15:50, GoncasN said:

Ok so let's go to the root of the problem, how should I convert my OW2 hipfire to R6S ADS to keep the same feel, since it's hipfire to ads i might have messed up something 

You would need to figure out what you want to do as your source and targets are most unusual.

Your Overwatch Hipfire FOV is far more "zoomed in" than your R6S ADS is.  Not an issue in itself, but you also have a stretched aspect ratio for R6S, but NOT for Overwatch which means you also have a different "focal length scaled" sensitivity when moving vertical vs horizontally, so you would either need to pick which one to use in the conversion method selection, or use one and then add the vertical hipfire modifier in R6S to balance the difference - but this will then change the angle of diagonal mouse inputs (I don't use any y/x ratios to change vertical sens now as don't like how it changes angle, rather use a bias function I added to Custom Curve to do so but that's a whole other discussion)..

You then have the screen size change to factor in, and whether or not you are at all concerned about the R6S hipfire being matched to anything whatsoever, which you don't seem to be.

So I don't think there is any advice I can give you now, because I fundamentally don't understand why you would set the games up like they are personally. 

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13 minutes ago, TheNoobPolice said:

You would need to figure out what you want to do as your source and targets are most unusual.

Your Overwatch Hipfire FOV is far more "zoomed in" than your R6S ADS is.  Not an issue in itself, but you also have a stretched aspect ratio for R6S, but NOT for Overwatch which means you also have a different "focal length scaled" sensitivity when moving vertical vs horizontally, so you would either need to pick which one to use in the conversion method selection, or use one and then add the vertical hipfire modifier in R6S to balance the difference - but this will then change the angle of diagonal mouse inputs (I don't use any y/x ratios to change vertical sens now as don't like how it changes angle, rather use a bias function I added to Custom Curve to do so but that's a whole other discussion)..

You then have the screen size change to factor in, and whether or not you are at all concerned about the R6S hipfire being matched to anything whatsoever, which you don't seem to be.

Oh damn, that's really fucked :(

I don't even know what to say 

14 minutes ago, TheNoobPolice said:

So I don't think there is any advice I can give you now, because I fundamentally don't understand why you would set the games up like they are personally. 

The reason I'm asking for this is because in overwatch (and most games in general) you shoot/aim in your hipfire state, but in siege you don't use you hipfire to shoot, you always aim/shoot when you're ADSing

So my thought process was, if I need to match my "sens" to be the same between games I need to go for the ADS sens since that's what I want to feel the same as the overwatch hipfire since those are the game's states where you aim and shoot, there's where the "muscle memory" needs to be

 

Although now that I am thinking about it, maybe a good way to go at this would be to match Siege's Hipfire to Overwatch Hipfire, and only after, try match Siege's ADS to Siege's Hipfire

Since we're going hipfire to hipfire i might have some more trusty results no? And then making my aim be 1:1 inside Siege might be easy since they already have implemented in game 1:1 between all sights with crazy differences in length from each other, so adding hipfire matching to that might be cake I think no?

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On 12/26/2022 at 7:10 PM, TheNoobPolice said:

ok, but since your R6S is stretched, you still need to pick either a vertical or horizontal match, as in this instance they will be different

Hum, what would be the difference? which one do you advise?

I could consider switching to 16:9 but in siege, playing 16:10 or 4:3 gives you a significantly easier time with headshots so im reluctant to go back just for the sake of this

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