BEST Mouse? BEST Mouse Pad? NEW! RAZER VIPER

[DNAMTE]

Picked up a ROCCAT Kone Emp about a week ago, update soon. 

[DNAMTE]

Ordered a steelseries Rival 310. I really liked the Rival 300 shape, just needed slightly more grip on the pinky side and nicer feet! Really looking forward to this one.

The ROCCAT Kone Emp...  Pinky side is an awkward shape, thumb side is great. Buttons were ok, not as good as Logitech. Sensor felt great but no better than current Razer or Logitech offerings.

Something else that really stood out from using this mouse is how I prefer a thinner base on the mouse. Using a low sensitivity your picking up the mouse A LOT, often the mouse is not perfectly flat on the pad during a fast swipe, the wider a mouse is, the greater the distance from sensor to pad when on a slight angle. Looking at the Logitech G900, the bottom tapers in to effectively reduce the footprint of the mouse, helping this issue. ROCCAT should work on this.

To top it off I think the LED strips are outdated and the weight is not justified in comparison to similar sized mice.

 

I'll Update when I get the Rival 310.

[DNAMTE]

First Impressions of the steelseries Rival 310... GREAT! Shape, buttons, feet, cable, weight = A+. It is a refined Rival 300. I'll update when I've used this mouse for a while but it's on track to my top pick for sure. It feels especially smooth on the pad, touching on the issue noted above with the ROCCAT EMP, this mouse has a nice bevelled bottom edge all around the base and feels consistently smooth regardless how messy my swipes are.

I run with 1600DPI WPS 3 (AKA 400DPI @ WPS6) sensor is notably crisp and lag free. Keeping in mind I've been using the Zowie 3310 for the longest time.

If I had to pick on something I would say the mouse wheel is slightly lower than I'm used to, personal preference.

Edited August 4, 2017 by DNAMTE

[iBerggman]

8 hours ago, DNAMTE said:

First Impressions of the steelseries Rival 310... GREAT! Shape, buttons, feet, cable, weight = A+. It is a refined Rival 300. I'll update when I've used this mouse for a while but it's on track to my top pick for sure. It feels especially smooth on the pad, touching on the issue noted above with the ROCCAT EMP, this mouse has a nice bevelled bottom edge all around the base and feels consistently smooth regardless how messy my swipes are.

I run with 1600DPI WPS 3 (AKA 400DPI @ WPS6) sensor is notably crisp and lag free. Keeping in mind I've been using the Zowie 3310 for the longest time.

If I had to pick on something I would say the mouse wheel is slightly lower than I'm used to, personal preference.

Sounds good, I'm considering switching my G403 to a Rival 310. The G403 is really nice in every other aspect expect the right side, with 19,5/10cm hands I feel there's too little to grip on to so my ring and pinky finger are just "there" and drag along the mousepad so it seems like the 310 would be the next best thing. But I do have some sugru so I might try creating some finger grooves on the right side of the G403 before I spend any more money on stuff I really don't need. ^^

Do you know if I can create a macro or something that would change the dpi when right mouse is held down? I've used a script on LGS to do this for games like cod where you can't individually adjust ads sensitivity so I'd be nice to have if I do make the switch to steelseries.

Edited August 4, 2017 by iBerggman

[DNAMTE]

I'll take a look today at the steels series software. Logitech often takes the throne for scripting.  I'll check and get back to you. 

The g403 gave me an achy hand with the lack of pinky support,  so did the Fk1. The ec2-a has given the most comfort in this regard (no problems with the RIVAL 310, still early days). 

 

Unfortunately I cant find the kind of scripting function required that Logitech provide. Nice Guide provided by Drimzi here:

Most likely what your using currently.

 

The Steelseries software provides support for push button macro recording (doesn't seem to even register the CPI button) and also a text script function which seems to only allow pasting of commands or text to clipboard. Unless you played a game with an active console and made a script to modify the games sensitivity rather then the mouse DPI I don't think the software has what you're looking for.

If anyone who knows the software better than me can chime in, please do!

Edited August 6, 2017 by DNAMTE

[iBerggman]

Looks like I have to try a Rival 310 then as it seems to check all the boxes, well except the ads sens scripting but that's such a small thing. A comfortable shape where I don't have to keep adjusting my hand is to way more important to me and something I haven't been able to find yet, and I've tried (although very briefly) a lot of mice since we have a store here that has most of the more popular models on display. I did use a EC1-A before and while it felt amazing when I put my hand on it at first, I still couldn't find a comfortable grip when gaming. I think the shape might be too low for me or the hump is too much in the front, didn't help that the coating made my hands feel sticky/dirty either...

Too bad about the lack of scripting but I guess it really doesn't matter since you can still match the ads perfectly and just have a faster hipfire, there's really not that many games I'd use it for anyway.

Edited August 6, 2017 by iBerggman

[Bryjoe]

I just bought the Zowie G-SR. It is better than the QCK+ Heavy. I also have switched to the Logitech G403 (I have 19.5+CM hands) and it is very similar to the EC1-A, but has software which I enjoy and a little bit better sensor. Zowie really tends to make the best peripherals, designed for FPS more than any other company. I think your mouse should be chosen based on what works best for FPS games, and Zowie really has you covered there, there is a reason about 80% of non-sponsored CSGO professionals use Zowie.

There are certainly plenty of good alternatives when it comes to mice, the Rival 310, Razer DeathAdder, Mionix are all good mice, but in terms of safe shape and a mouse the will fit any hand size, Zowie has you covered. I only use the G403 because it mimics the EC1-A so closely and has software, the shape of the EC1-A is perfect for large hands in my opinion.

I should note the Zowie is super barebones, by design and that their build quality is typically not as good as Logitech and Razer. (This is not a note for durability, more in terms of how the material of the mouse and buttons feel) The zowie plastic, buttons and finish could be improved, but they really have nailed what is important in a quality FPS mouse: Light weight, safe shape and a great sensor.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Bryan Redding

[DNAMTE]

On ‎7‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 11:57 PM, Bryan Redding said:

I just bought the Zowie G-SR. It is better than the QCK+ Heavy. I also have switched to the Logitech G403 (I have 19.5+CM hands) and it is very similar to the EC1-A, but has software which I enjoy and a little bit better sensor. Zowie really tends to make the best peripherals, designed for FPS more than any other company. I think your mouse should be chosen based on what works best for FPS games, and Zowie really has you covered there, there is a reason about 80% of non-sponsored CSGO professionals use Zowie.

There are certainly plenty of good alternatives when it comes to mice, the Rival 310, Razer DeathAdder, Mionix are all good mice, but in terms of safe shape and a mouse the will fit any hand size, Zowie has you covered. I only use the G403 because it mimics the EC1-A so closely and has software, the shape of the EC1-A is perfect for large hands in my opinion.

I should note the Zowie is super barebones, by design and that their build quality is typically not as good as Logitech and Razer. (This is not a note for durability, more in terms of how the material of the mouse and buttons feel) The zowie plastic, buttons and finish could be improved, but they really have nailed what is important in a quality FPS mouse: Light weight, safe shape and a great sensor.

Honestly, Zowie EC shape is nothing like the G403, IMO, There's quite a distinct difference in the middle of the mouse if you compare them both, I prefer the shape of the zowie, the buttons and workings of the Logitech (needs better feet, too)... The 3310 implementation is great however the latest Razer mice and the new steelseries really have something additional to the standard 3366, they feel sharper (I mentioned this when testing out the new Razer DA). It is noticeable, especially going from a 3310.

Mouse pads is personal preference really, some people prefer fast and others more control, I think it depends largely what sensitivity your using, low or high.

I still need to get my hands on the ROCCAT extended version, that one felt great too.

 

For an Update on the Steelseries Rival 310...

It's my main driver now. The shape, buttons, sensor... I like it all. I really have no nagging flaws to pick on, which I do with EVERY other mouse on my list. This mouse is #1. Lots of thought has gone in to this mouse, it glides better than any other mouse I've tested, the bottom centre is raised so literally ONLY the feet will touch your mousepad, unlike most others (including zowie). The bottom edges are rounded nicely and no protruding angles (looking at you ROCCAT) which can cause issues if your swiping your mouse a lot and NOT keeping it perfectly flat.

It has a fantastic shape that is easy to hold, feels locked in, always. FANTASTIC job steelseries.

Edited August 20, 2017 by DNAMTE

[Bryjoe]

On 8/17/2017 at 5:16 AM, DNAMTE said:

Honestly, Zowie EC shape is nothing like the G403, IMO, There's quite a distinct difference in the middle of the mouse if you compare them both, I prefer the shape of the zowie, the buttons and workings of the Logitech (needs better feet, too)... The 3310 implementation is great however the latest Razer mice and the new steelseries really have something additional to the standard 3366, they feel sharper (I mentioned this when testing out the new Razer DA). It is noticeable, especially going from a 3310.

Mouse pads is personal preference really, some people prefer fast and others more control, I think it depends largely what sensitivity your using, low or high.

I still need to get my hands on the ROCCAT extended version, that one felt great too.

 

For an Update on the Steelseries Rival 310...

It's my main driver now. The shape, buttons, sensor... I like it all. I really have no nagging flaws to pick on, which I do with EVERY other mouse on my list. This mouse is #1. Lots of thought has gone in to this mouse, it glides better than any other mouse I've tested, the bottom centre is raised so literally ONLY the feet will touch your mousepad, unlike most others (including zowie). The bottom edges are rounded nicely and no protruding angles (looking at you ROCCAT) which can cause issues if your swiping your mouse a lot and NOT keeping it perfectly flat.

It has a fantastic shape that is easy to hold, feels locked in, always. FANTASTIC job steelseries.

It is largely personal preference, I suppose the G403 is a bit more like a deathadder in shape. The shape is still overwhelmingly safe though, if you have big hands. It has better buttons, better coating and the lack of software on the zowie is both a boon and a major flaw. Zowie has cheaper feeling components on their mice, but they are fantastic for FPS. 

The rival 310 looks like a great mouse, the shape, however, seems extremely unique and one that you either love or hate. The EC-1 A and the G403 both have a similar shape to an intellimouse, while I do agree there is a bit of a hump on the G403, if you have 19.5CM hands I don't find this to be much of an issue. 

 

On to the mouse pad, having tried about 5 different mousepads I prefer cloth to hard, and thick to soft. The QCk+ heavy has long been a favorite among CSGO pros, but I always found it to be a tad to thick, the Zowie GSR feels like the same type of cloth but less thick, which is why I claim it to be superior, IF you like the QCk+ Heavy.

 

On your sensor perceptions, the 3310 sensor is the best available, and even it is not appreciably better than previous sensors in the last few years. I just find it a bit hard to believe there is a noticeable jump between the Razer DA sensor and the G403.

 

Your review of the rival does make me want to give it a try however.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Bryan Redding

[DNAMTE]

Picked up a Steelseries Rival 600.

First impressions,  it feels great, the design is very good. I've been using the Rival 310 as my main for some time now, and it's been a great mouse, my favorite out of EVERYONE i have tried. My only concern with the Rival 310 is the rubber sides, the rubber is soft and does not give a SOLID grip and can feel too slick. The Rival 600 has a much thinner, firmer feeling material which at this stage seems better, i will update in due time if my opinion changes.

The scroll wheel also feels extremely good on the Rival 600, one of the best. All the buttons feel great and despite what others say, the left and right clicks are perfectly fine, much better in comparison to a Zowie EC or FK click.

One of the main changes i notice is the mouse feet. They are noisy when gliding, you would think that means they have more resistance, but they don't. In fact one of the stand out features of the Rival 310 was how nicely it glides, this glides even better.

I'll leave my thoughts here, let the honeymoon period settle and report back when I've found some issues? hopefully not.

[iBerggman]

7 hours ago, DNAMTE said:

Picked up a Steelseries Rival 600.

First impressions,  it feels great, the design is very good. I've been using the Rival 310 as my main for some time now, and it's been a great mouse, my favorite out of EVERYONE i have tried. My only concern with the Rival 310 is the rubber sides, the rubber is soft and does not give a SOLID grip and can feel too slick. The Rival 600 has a much thinner, firmer feeling material which at this stage seems better, i will update in due time if my opinion changes.

The scroll wheel also feels extremely good on the Rival 600, one of the best. All the buttons feel great and despite what others say, the left and right clicks are perfectly fine, much better in comparison to a Zowie EC or FK click.

One of the main changes i notice is the mouse feet. They are noisy when gliding, you would think that means they have more resistance, but they don't. In fact one of the stand out features of the Rival 310 was how nicely it glides, this glides even better.

I'll leave my thoughts here, let the honeymoon period settle and report back when I've found some issues? hopefully not.

Sounds good! I've been looking at switching from my G403 to something with a little more length (130mm or so) and tbh it seems there's not too much to choose from. I was looking at the 600, the 300s with Truemove1 as well as the Fnatic Clutch 2 and was kind of leaning towards the Fnatic because of how straight the right side is. It kind of has a similar shape to the G403 with the roomy front corners so that helps too, I really like the overall shape but it's just too short to palm with 20x10cm hands. Personally, I can't grip mice that flare out at the top front right either because I tend to grip pretty hard with my ringfinger there and any ridge there just doesn't work for that. However, It seems the Rival 600 has a pretty flat/straight front right so maybe it could work, I'm just a little worried about the gaps and angles on the shell it's pretty expensive in the end. If anyone has other recommendations in this size I'd appreciate it a lot.

Also, has anyone noticed how annoying it is to try and find a mouse based on dimensions? It seems no site allows you to filter based on that. I honestly started thinking I should setup a website for this, kind of like what rjn has but with more details and filtering options, more like a database of mice. I've had some ideas about keyboard switch & mousepad testing as well as comparisons/reviews so that could be another feature. Too bad I know nothing about web page development so idk, maybe wix has a template that works for this.  

[MuntyYy]

What do you guys think of g303 ?
I'm currently using a g402. Playing with roughly 60cm/ 360. I want to change it due to the horrendous LOD and the way the sensor moves top right when slamming the mouse.
Other than that, if g402 was 2 cm shorter it would've been perfect for me ( the mouse feet and buttons are pretty good as well ). 18/ 10 cm hands. I could try buying ec2-a, as its almost 2 cm shorter than g402, and the width is pretty much the same, not to mention they share the same hump height. My ideal moue would probably have 12 cm length 6.6 width ( at the base ) and a 4 cm hump. 

[ScottyFPS]

2 hours ago, MuntyYy said:

What do you guys think of g303 ?
I'm currently using a g402. Playing with roughly 60cm/ 360. I want to change it due to the horrendous LOD and the way the sensor moves top right when slamming the mouse.
Other than that, if g402 was 2 cm shorter it would've been perfect for me ( the mouse feet and buttons are pretty good as well ). 18/ 10 cm hands. I could try buying ec2-a, as its almost 2 cm shorter than g402, and the width is pretty much the same, not to mention they share the same hump height. My ideal moue would probably have 12 cm length 6.6 width ( at the base ) and a 4 cm hump. 

G303's are pretty hard to come by without paying a ridiculous amount for it because Logitech discontinued it. Also, it's oddly shaped sides can be rather off putting for some. You have roughly the same sized hands as me, and I use the G305 as my daily driver, so I'd recommend that if you use claw or fingertip grip and either the ec2-a or the g403 for palm grip. Do be aware that Zowie's quality control can be a hit or miss and the g403's hump can be a plus or minus for some.

Edited August 4, 2018 by 1TimePurchase

[MuntyYy]

13 minutes ago, 1TimePurchase said:

G303's are pretty hard to come by without paying a ridiculous amount for it because Logitech discontinued it. Also, it's oddly shaped sides can be rather off putting for some. You have roughly the same sized hands as me, and I use the G305 as my daily driver, so I'd recommend that if you use claw or fingertip grip and either the ec2-a or the g403 for palm grip. Do be aware that Zowie's quality control can be a hit or miss and the g403's hump can be a plus or minus for some.

I can buy the g303 for about 32 euros. I use a palm, sometimes claw grip. Will the ec2's sensor keep up with my movement ? g403 looks bigger and heavier than what I would like.

[DNAMTE]

19 hours ago, MuntyYy said:

I can buy the g303 for about 32 euros. I use a palm, sometimes claw grip. Will the ec2's sensor keep up with my movement ? g403 looks bigger and heavier than what I would like.

I personally didn't like the G403 shape, it also has crappy glide on standard feet. It might be an all rounder but it's not close to the best I've handled. I personally found the EC2 -A to be a far superior shape to the G403. I also much preferred the FK series to the EC series. Personally, i like the FK 1+ the most, you can hold it more traditionally and it has really good sides for grip. The FK2 is way too small IMO, certainly a fingertip grip.

Honestly the rival 310 needs a different material on the grips and its damn near perfect. When your hands are dry it grips amazingly well, but any moisture and it gets really slippery. If it had some 'comfort grooves' in the M1 + M2 buttons and a grippier material - #1 mouse easily IMO.

For the record the Rival 600 material does the opposite, you get a better grip once your hand warms up, however it is not as well designed on the right side as the rival 310 and you need to grip it harder. If your a high sens player it might not matter, but for me i need to pick up the mouse a lot and i really appreciate good geometry like the FK series and the Rival 310.

Right now id rate the FK1+ and the Rival 310 as the top two. It sways in favor to the FK simply because there's no issues with grip under any condition. 

 

[MuntyYy]

2 hours ago, DNAMTE said:

Honestly the rival 310 needs a different material on the grips and its damn near perfect. When your hands are dry it grips amazingly well, but any moisture and it gets really slippery. If it had some 'comfort grooves' in the M1 + M2 buttons and a grippier material - #1 mouse easily IMO.

Thank you for the recommendation. My hands are pretty dry, but probably not as big as yours, as I find the mouse shape a bit weird and rather big for my style ( my ring finger is placed on mouse 2, pinky on the right side ). The LOD and movement looks pretty damn perfect. Never seen a mouse achieve such a controlled lift of movement. And that alone should be high on my list of picking a better mouse, as g402 is horrible in that aspect. 

[DNAMTE]

19 hours ago, MuntyYy said:

Thank you for the recommendation. My hands are pretty dry, but probably not as big as yours, as I find the mouse shape a bit weird and rather big for my style ( my ring finger is placed on mouse 2, pinky on the right side ). The LOD and movement looks pretty damn perfect. Never seen a mouse achieve such a controlled lift of movement. And that alone should be high on my list of picking a better mouse, as g402 is horrible in that aspect. 

Have you tried the FK2?

[MuntyYy]

2 hours ago, DNAMTE said:

Have you tried the FK2?

I haven't, but its 20 dollars more than the g303.
From what I've read, it should fit me quite well. But the clicks stiffness and quality ( or lack thereof ) + sensor performance are sub par compared to the Logitech. However, I believe that you know more than I think I do and should probably at least test the fk2.
If Zowie puts a better sensor in the FK series and separates the buttons from its shell everyone would buy it, as their cables are already the best and weight wise its well balanced and light. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by MuntyYy

[Bryjoe]

I have 19.5CM hands, so pretty large and there are many choices for us now. I actually think the mouse market is best suited for large hands. Rival 600, EC2-A (I think there is an updated version of this now) the Deathadder Elite, the G403 (my personal favorite) and the finalmouse ultralight (debateably the best mouse on the market for FPS shooters due to it's light weight). The FK is an also a great mouse, I think it is tailored for more medium sized hands, however. Some people like a smaller mouse to aim with, though.

[MuntyYy]

4 minutes ago, Bryjoe said:

I actually think the mouse market is best suited for large hands

Can you palm the g303 or the fk2 though ?
FK2's ( and 1) shape is arguably the best a mouse can have.
g303 sensor and buttons quality are the best a mouse can provide atm. EC2-A and B are also smaller than the FK2 and G403, definitely not a mouse suited for large hands ( unless you wanna finger tip it ).
If I'm wrong I stand corrected.
 

[MuntyYy]

11 minutes ago, Bryjoe said:

finalmouse ultralight (debateably the best mouse on the market for FPS shooters due to it's light weight)

That's what I want to find out. Not necessarily IF finalmouse ultralight is or not the best for FPS shooters, but instead what's the most suited for me. If I could have the 3366 sensor, the buttons of the g303, the cord and shape of the ec2-a ( or maybe fk2 ) and the weight of the finalmouse then probably that will be perfection right there. Until then I want to try out the fk2 and ec2-a and compare them to my friend's g303. I will greatly appreciated any other advice.

[Bryjoe]

49 minutes ago, MuntyYy said:

That's what I want to find out. Not necessarily IF finalmouse ultralight is or not the best for FPS shooters, but instead what's the most suited for me. If I could have the 3366 sensor, the buttons of the g303, the cord and shape of the ec2-a ( or maybe fk2 ) and the weight of the finalmouse then probably that will be perfection right there. Until then I want to try out the fk2 and ec2-a and compare them to my friend's g303. I will greatly appreciated any other advice.

http://www.rocketjumpninja.com/top-40/

 

I follow this guys recommendations pretty closely he's tried hundreds of mice and is an excellent quake player. Follow his size guides for you hand size. Probably the reason the FK is so loved is because 1. Safe Shape 2. Light weight (the lighter the mouse, the easier it is to aim within reason) 3. Fits all hand sizes depending on what you get. 

 

I meant the EC1-A is meant for large hands.

[MuntyYy]

3 hours ago, Bryjoe said:

http://www.rocketjumpninja.com/top-40/

 

I follow this guys recommendations pretty closely he's tried hundreds of mice and is an excellent quake player. Follow his size guides for you hand size. Probably the reason the FK is so loved is because 1. Safe Shape 2. Light weight (the lighter the mouse, the easier it is to aim within reason) 3. Fits all hand sizes depending on what you get. 

 

I meant the EC1-A is meant for large hands.

Yea, I know Zy, being at his level I wouldn't give a crap about the sensor either. He has a similar hand size as mine > Zy = 18.5/9, mine = 18/10. Only that alone though, can't dictate your ideal mouse. There are a lot of things that need to be considered and indeed he explains it quite well. I'm still waiting for new vids  of mice tests from @DPI Wizard. 

[iBerggman]

6 hours ago, Bryjoe said:

I have 19.5CM hands, so pretty large and there are many choices for us now. I actually think the mouse market is best suited for large hands.

Not for palm grip though? I have ~20cm hands and can't think of many mice I can actually palm and have most of my palm in contact with the mouse. I've tried for example the EC1-A, G403 and Deathadder and they all force me to use somewhat of a fingertip grip with my palm hovering from roughly around the knuckles. If I were to put my palm to the rear of the shell I'd have quite a bit of my fingertips hanging over the edge. 

[MuntyYy]

48 minutes ago, iBerggman said:

I have ~20cm hands and can't think of many mice I can actually palm and have most of my palm in contact with the mouse

Is that a hindrance for you ? I assume not, as you always had big hands. Can't think of someone playing decent in a finger tip grip tho. You can probably claw grip most mice, which in my opinion is a far more superior method than finger tipping. But then there are guys with 18+ cm hands, playing just as good with 10 cm mice. So I guess there are more factors to play in, than just your hand length.

Edited August 6, 2018 by MuntyYy